[
Replying to The Barbarian in post #0]
The Church has never held Sola Scriptura to be true. Indeed, as you have see, the Bible itself says that there are other authoritative sources of information about God.
EarthScienceguy wrote:
Wow!! I now must assume that you do not know what is meant by Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura means the supremacy of the Scripture over all other revelations.
1st You are making the case that all of the Early Church Fathers were in error.
So you saying that all of the Early Chruch fathers were in Error when because they held the view of the supremacy of Scripture. At no point in their writings did they appeal to nature as the authority if it could not be proved in the text of the Bible then it was considered error.
none of the Church fathers contradicted St. Paul when he wrote that there were other authoritative sources of truth about God than scripture.
But as you have learned. None of the Church fathers used nature to make their case. It did not even occur to them to do so. As you learn Augustine was not talking about logic supremacy but about silly arguments like the abode of angels or how many angels fit on the end of the pen. These are things that are not even mentioned in Scripture. Issues that were not even discussed in Scripture are useless to discuss because they can not be confirmed or denied in Scripture.
2nd you seem to be making the case that Augustine did not support Sola Scriptura or the supremacy of Scripture.
But as you have already learned Augustine supported the supremacy of Scripture:
"The authority of these books has come down to us from the apostles through the successions of bishops and the extension of the Church, and, from a position of lofty supremacy, claims the submission of every faithful and pious mind." Augustine of Hippo, “Reply to Faustus the Manichæan,” translated by Richard Stothert, in A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, First Series, Volume IV: St. Augustine: The Writings Against the Manichaeans and Against the Donatists, edited by Philip Schaff (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1887), 180
3rd you seem to be making the suggestion that Paul did not support the supremacy of Scripture.
Since you like Romans 1:18-20 and you seem to think that it works for you let us take a look at what this verse in Romans really says.
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
As you have already learned, Paul here is talking about the ungodly being able to see the invisible qualities of God. God's eternal power and His divine nature.
But in 2 Timothy 3:16 Paul says that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, and for training in righteousness."
In this passage, Paul also states that these invisible qualities have been seen from the creation of the world. This idea of a six-day creation is found more than just in Genesis.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days, the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor and was refreshed.”
Jesus also said taught that men were around since the creation
Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female."
The word from here is the "apo" which means "of origin". The word translated "since" is the same word "apo".
So starting from the origin or cause, of creation. Both Jesus and Paul are saying the same thing. Men have been around since the beginning of creation.
Creation took six days according to Moses.
And Jesus also said.
John 5:45–47 “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
Now you have learned that Paul was actually affirming the Genesis account of creation. Jesus affirmed the Genesis account of creation and Moses affirmed the Genesis account of Creation.
Anyone not believing in the supremacy of Scripture does leaves room to interpret the Bible how anyone wishes. This is the case with you also. Do you believe in the death and resurrection of Christ? If you do not then I can see why you do not believe in the Supremacy of Scripture because you are not a Christian.
Paul says the way to salvation is as follows:
Romans 10:9-10 "that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved"
St. Paul specifically refutes that error, showing that that God's power and majesty are clearly seen in His creation as well.
God's eternal power and divine nature are seen in creation but then as you have learned the Bible puts a 6-day perimeter around creation.
"Scripture and tradition were for the Early Church in no sense mutually exclusive:
How could it be? The OT was founded on tradition, just as the NT is founded on tradition.
Protestans accepted the authority of Scripture but not the authority of religious tradition, as St. Paul set forth. This error was propagated by men who distrusted God's inspiration.
Since the Bible was compiled by men, depending on tradition, it would be impossible to separate the two. Two sides of one thing.
This is a completely unsupported statement.
