Dwelling on sin

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:37 am

The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the persepctive of free will, do these thoughts consititute sin regardless of actions?

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:54 pm

MagusYanam wrote:But then again, sin is something to be overcome (never perfectly by oneself - only God can overcome sin completely). I think of sin as deeper than just 'being naughty' - it is a natural shortcoming: human beings are naturally self-centred and naturally short-sighted - we are naturally tethered to ourselves, and this leads to a lot of suffering, both for ourselves and for those around us.

So, ST88, I think my disagreement with you here is a definitional one. You see 'sin' as an action whereas I see 'sin' as an inclination, the byproduct of being human.

Possibly. But then why that whole eye gouging, arm chopping thing? Surely even putting out your own eye wouldn't be good enough if it were the thought that was the sin. I would think it would be in your thoughts even more so because the image of the [Lust object] would be one of the last things that eye had seen -- recency and all that. If thought was the sin, then removing your perception appendage would not stop the thoughts.

This passage comes in the context of re-interpreting the commandments (a few of them, anyway) as a roadmap for being holier than thou. The Murder section, for example, Matt 5:21 et al says that if you're angry at your brother, you'll be in danger of the judgment. Not that you've already been judged, but that you're in danger of it because just by thinking about it you can make it happen without further thinking about it. So be aware of what you're thinking about because you are that city on a hill, and you don't have enough self-control to be able to think about something and not do it. That's what I get out of this passage.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:48 am

"In danger of the judgment" seems different then Judgment.
"Sin is at the door" is different then open the door and let it in.

Would we also run the danger by never thinking about it but just doing it?
It sounds like the writer had found themselves with out the law and were wishing they hadn't left it behind. The Pharisees were a little more flexible as they could talk about it.

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:26 pm

Ok, back to the drawing board. As has been shown, I have misinterpreted scripture out of context yet again

. Thanks to all for pointing it out, perhaps some day I might really understand it

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:34 pm

Confused wrote:Ok, back to the drawing board. As has been shown, I have misinterpreted scripture out of context yet again . Thanks to all for pointing it out, perhaps some day I might really understand it

I think a lot of people interpret it the same way you did, if it is any consolation.

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:45 pm

Confused wrote:Ok, back to the drawing board. As has been shown, I have misinterpreted scripture out of context yet again . Thanks to all for pointing it out, perhaps some day I might really understand it

Keep in mind that just because I'm persistent about how I interpret this stuff and relentlessly defend my position, that doesn't mean I'm right about it. Heck I don't even believe this stuff anyway. I often treat the Bible as a Comp Lit project.

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:37 am

ST88 wrote:
Confused wrote:Ok, back to the drawing board. As has been shown, I have misinterpreted scripture out of context yet again . Thanks to all for pointing it out, perhaps some day I might really understand it
Keep in mind that just because I'm persistent about how I interpret this stuff and relentlessly defend my position, that doesn't mean I'm right about it. Heck I don't even believe this stuff anyway. I often treat the Bible as a Comp Lit project.

May be true, but when several posters repeat the same things, I have to wonder how valid my interpretation is. When I read it in the context that has been provided by others, I have to be honest and admit to myself that my interpretation is less plausible. But I will keep pressing away

Greatest I Am · Post by **Greatest I Am** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:27 am

achilles12604 wrote:The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the perspective of free will, do these thoughts constitute sin regardless of actions?

Remember that Jesus changed the nature of sin with His death.
He effectively eliminates sin from the equation.
He accentuated the positive position with God versus the negative position previously held.

Regards
DL

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Dwelling on sin

Dwelling on sin

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