Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

[Eloi]

[Eloi]

The fact that Jesus appeared in bodies of flesh to make himself visible DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was visible, but JUST the opposite: if his body had been made of flesh and bones, he would never have made himself invisible with his disciples. But Scripture explains:

Acts 10:40?God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41?not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

PD: I just read the thread I am involved with ... I do not read back every time someone wants me to do. This is a dialog, not a "look for what I said".

[historia]

The fact that Jesus appeared in bodies of flesh to make himself visible DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was visible, but JUST the opposite: if his body had been made of flesh and bones, he would never have made himself invisible with his disciples.

I could appreciate this point if Christians believed that Jesus' resurrected body was ordinay flesh and bones.

But that's not what they believe. They believe Jesus' frail, mortal body was transformed into an extraordinary, supernatural body that now has new properties that allow it to do things an ordinary body cannot (see post #27).

Scripture explains:

Acts 10:40?God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41?not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

Yeah, that seems perfectly consistent with what Christians believe.

I just read the thread I am involved with ... I do not read back every time someone wants me to do. This is a dialog, not a "look for what I said".

That's certainly fair. But, in case you missed it, post #27 and post #30 are directed to you as the author of the OP.

Feel free to respond to those at your earliest convenience, as it would greatly enhance our dialog.

[myth-one.com]

You have decided, for example, to interpret the word "spiritual" to mean 'made out of spirit,' but that is simply mistaken.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

I do not know what a spiritual body is made out of -- nor do I care.

The dead bodies of Christians are buried as natural bodies.

The bodies which Christians will be resurrected with are spiritual bodies.

That is God's decision, not mine.

I don't care if it's "made out of Spirit".

Deceased believers will be born again of the Spirit at the Second Coming with "spiritual bodies" according to the Bible.

Since that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, it seems obvious that they are spirits ?

==================================================

When Paul talks about the "spiritual" person here, obviously he doesn't mean a person made out of spirit. He means a person oriented toward the Spirit of God, in contrast to the "natural" person, who is oriented towards his or her own human nature.

So deceased believers are simply resurrected with a new "orientation toward the Spirit of God"?


If so, then you are claiming that living Christians are not now oriented toward the Spirit of God!

[Eloi]

(...) But that's not what they believe. They believe Jesus' frail, mortal body was transformed into an extraordinary, supernatural body that now has new properties that allow it to do things an ordinary body cannot (...)

But not closing some holes in the hands?

If Thomas had seen Jesus with his old body (and he knew him very well), it would not have even been necessary to show him any holes in the hands.

[onewithhim]

[onewithhim]

The fact that Jesus appeared in bodies of flesh to make himself visible DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was visible, but JUST the opposite: if his body had been made of flesh and bones, he would never have made himself invisible with his disciples. But Scripture explains:

Acts 10:40?God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41?not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

PD: I just read the thread I am involved with ... I do not read back every time someone wants me to do. This is a dialog, not a "look for what I said".

Further.....If his body had been flesh and bones he would not have been able to get through the door which had been locked! (John 20:19,26)

.

[myth-one.com]

The fact that Jesus appeared in bodies of flesh to make himself visible DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was visible, but JUST the opposite: if his body had been made of flesh and bones, he would never have made himself invisible with his disciples. But Scripture explains:

Acts 10:40?God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41?not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

PD: I just read the thread I am involved with ... I do not read back every time someone wants me to do. This is a dialog, not a "look for what I said".

Further.....If his body had been flesh and bones he would not have been able to get through the door which had been locked! (John 20:19,26)

.

Jesus stated that He was flesh and bones after His resurrection:

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Was Jesus lying?

[onewithhim]

The fact that Jesus appeared in bodies of flesh to make himself visible DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was visible, but JUST the opposite: if his body had been made of flesh and bones, he would never have made himself invisible with his disciples. But Scripture explains:

Acts 10:40?God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41?not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.

PD: I just read the thread I am involved with ... I do not read back every time someone wants me to do. This is a dialog, not a "look for what I said".

Further.....If his body had been flesh and bones he would not have been able to get through the door which had been locked! (John 20:19,26)

.

Jesus stated that He was flesh and bones after His resurrection:

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Was Jesus lying?

He was simply trying to assure them that it was he and not an apparition. There is no way he could have come through the locked doors with a solid physical body.

[Eloi]

(...) Jesus stated that He was flesh and bones after His resurrection:

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Was Jesus lying?

No, the one who lies is you.

Jesus said that IN THAT MOMENT BEING WITH THEM he had flesh and bones ... Not that "he was flesh and bones after his resurrection", as you say.

That Jesus has become visible with bodies of flesh DOES NOT MEAN that his new body was made of flesh. Otherwise he would have remained visible to his disciples all the time ... but as you read in Acts. 10:40,41, he was only allowed to appear that way to his disciples and to no one else.

Angels did the same in the past (in Judges 13 you have a good example). Angels HAVE NOT a body of flesh, even if they ate with men sometimes. Those stories of angels that appeared in ancient times with bodies of flesh and appeared to be natural men, were very well known to all Jews ... and also to all Christians, in the First Century and now. When the disciples saw Jesus appear and disappear, they knew very well what it was all about.

[historia]

I do not know what a spiritual body is made out of

Okay, but that's not what you said earlier:

Likewise, when Paul talks of the "spiritual" body in 15:44, he is not talking about a body made out of spirit.

Yes, he absolutely is!

Seems like you've changed your mind. Good!

When Paul talks about the "spiritual" person here, obviously he doesn't mean a person made out of spirit. He means a person oriented toward the Spirit of God, in contrast to the "natural" person, who is oriented towards his or her own human nature.

So deceased believers are simply resurrected with a new "orientation toward the Spirit of God"?

No, what I wrote earlier was this:

He is contrasting a body animated by the soul (psyche) with one animated by the Spirit (pneuma) (of God).

The Greek word pneumatikos generally means 'pertaining to the spirit (or wind)'. To understand it's specific meaning, you have to look at how it is being used in context.

What it cannot mean, though, is 'made of spirit'. Greek adjectives that end with the suffix -ikos do not refer to what something is made of. If you want to describe what something is made of, you use an adjective with the suffix -inos.