Why is killing wrong?
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Why is killing wrong?
Post #1Well? Why is it, outside of religion? It is according to the law of my country, mostly, outside of debates such as euthenasia or self-defence. But then there's other countries, where it's legal say for a woman who caught her husband cheating to kill him. It's fine for them to do so in a jealous rage. Why not elsewhere? Becase it's appallling? What about the other emotions involved? How about how the jealous wife feels?
'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Post #21
then why complain when a being higher than humans kills them?I knew I should be eating more meat for a reason . Yes, my view is obviously reflective of anthropocentric ( ughh, gurgle mouthwash to rinse the bad taste out) rather than a biocentric view. Guilty are charged. I shouldn't place more value on human life than life in general. A fallacy that despite frequent reassessment I can't seem to shed.
'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Post #22
I don't complain. How can I? I don't think a being higher than humans is killing them. Humans kill humans, animals kill animals, bacteria/viruses/fungi/etc.. kills humans, age kills humans, even the environment kills humans.scorpia wrote:then why complain when a being higher than humans kills them?I knew I should be eating more meat for a reason . Yes, my view is obviously reflective of anthropocentric ( ughh, gurgle mouthwash to rinse the bad taste out) rather than a biocentric view. Guilty are charged. I shouldn't place more value on human life than life in general. A fallacy that despite frequent reassessment I can't seem to shed.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
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Fisherking
Post #23
As Michael Ramsen said,
"Jesus Christ did not come into this world to take bad people and make them good.... Jesus Christ came into this world to take dead people and make them live."
Without belief in Jesus Christ we are not truly alive---we are dead, everyone one of us.. its just a matter of time. Everyone has been offered eternal life by Jesus Christ. Does he tell us to wait for "proof" before we believe? No, we are blind until we believe. There will never be any proof before belief because he is the one that gives us the eyes to see.
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
The dead cannot see, they are blind. I can see blue, but I cannot prove blue exists to a blind man. I can't even describe to him what it looks like. So the blind man says there is no blue and that I am making it all up. He then goes on to tell me that it is nonsense to believe that blue exists (the shirt he is wearing happens to be blue). I then tell him that if he will just believe me when I say there is a color blue, he will miraculously gain his sight. He tells me he does not believe in miracles.......
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life....
40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
The physical man cannot understand spiritual things.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
What has Jesus has asked that is so offensive and threatening? Jesus is offering us eternal life. It is religion that require you to jump through hoops. Jesus had a simple message. Believe in me and live.
"Jesus Christ did not come into this world to take bad people and make them good.... Jesus Christ came into this world to take dead people and make them live."
Without belief in Jesus Christ we are not truly alive---we are dead, everyone one of us.. its just a matter of time. Everyone has been offered eternal life by Jesus Christ. Does he tell us to wait for "proof" before we believe? No, we are blind until we believe. There will never be any proof before belief because he is the one that gives us the eyes to see.
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
The dead cannot see, they are blind. I can see blue, but I cannot prove blue exists to a blind man. I can't even describe to him what it looks like. So the blind man says there is no blue and that I am making it all up. He then goes on to tell me that it is nonsense to believe that blue exists (the shirt he is wearing happens to be blue). I then tell him that if he will just believe me when I say there is a color blue, he will miraculously gain his sight. He tells me he does not believe in miracles.......
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life....
40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
The physical man cannot understand spiritual things.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
What has Jesus has asked that is so offensive and threatening? Jesus is offering us eternal life. It is religion that require you to jump through hoops. Jesus had a simple message. Believe in me and live.
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AClockWorkOrange
- Scholar
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:07 pm
- Location: Alaska
Post #24
killing is wrong in so far as it is bad for communities.
becuase it is bad for communities, i have been brainwashed (its a good thing) into believing that murder is wrong, so i do.
killing is justified in defense of ones own well being, but then again i have a rationalization against killing in war, becuase i believe in a world community, and since killing is bad for this community, im against that too...
then again, we have a population problem...
becuase it is bad for communities, i have been brainwashed (its a good thing) into believing that murder is wrong, so i do.
killing is justified in defense of ones own well being, but then again i have a rationalization against killing in war, becuase i believe in a world community, and since killing is bad for this community, im against that too...
then again, we have a population problem...
Post #25
Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but doesn't morality start when you get to the human level? There are various ethical considerations with regards to the killing of animals, but I don't think that would be a religious/moral issue, would it? And since morals apply when you get to the level of humans, I would think that those same morals apply when you get to a being who is above humans. Is there yet another moral code when you get up there?scorpia wrote:then why complain when a being higher than humans kills them?Confused wrote: shouldn't place more value on human life than life in general. A fallacy that despite frequent reassessment I can't seem to shed.
Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings forgotten. -- George Orwell, 1984
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McCulloch
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Post #26
What is so special about humans that we are the ethical dividing point? Those allegedly below us can be ethically killed but those who may be above us cannot kill us without violating some kind of absolute moral code?ST88 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but doesn't morality start when you get to the human level? There are various ethical considerations with regards to the killing of animals, but I don't think that would be a religious/moral issue, would it? And since morals apply when you get to the level of humans, I would think that those same morals apply when you get to a being who is above humans. Is there yet another moral code when you get up there?scorpia wrote:then why complain when a being higher than humans kills them?Confused wrote: shouldn't place more value on human life than life in general. A fallacy that despite frequent reassessment I can't seem to shed.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Post #27
If you assume a being or beings that is/are above humans who endowed humans with human-like qualities for the specific purpose of being that being's/those beings' free-will concomitants, then you should also be able to assume that any morality that stems from said being(s) would not apply to those earthly beings apart from humans -- i.e., below them on a moral scale.
If there is a moral law among humans, and there is not beneath; we should be able to assume that any moral law that could be applied to humans should be applied among humans and should not be applied beneath them; as such:
/\- hyperhumans
|- humans
|- Republicans
|
| <------------------> (morals begin here)
|
|- Animals
|- Plants
\/- various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.
We should be able to kill plants and viruses with impunity, for example, except as our aesthetic sensibilities prevent us from doing so. There should be ethical concerns with killing of animals because of the potential for disease, arbitrary emotional attachment, utility, etc. But for Moral reasons? I don't think so. You might say that executing the last dodo was an immoral act, and I would say it was instead an unethical act, because its destruction as a species violates only a) its role in an amoral environment, and b) our own sense of aesthetics.
Going up on the scale, once you encounter the moral dividing line, anything that is moral should be applied to everyone, including hyperhumans.
On a side note, even if the hyperhumans have an additional, unseen, unknowable morality, this doesn't mean that humans shouldn't complain bitterly about the seemingly arbitrary punishments doled out to them. By not endowing humans the ability to understand their punishment by death (yet understanding the immediacy of the punishment itself), the hyperhumans have permitted, by omission, the plaintive wailing of the damned.
If there is a moral law among humans, and there is not beneath; we should be able to assume that any moral law that could be applied to humans should be applied among humans and should not be applied beneath them; as such:
/\- hyperhumans
|- humans
|- Republicans
|
| <------------------> (morals begin here)
|
|- Animals
|- Plants
\/- various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.
We should be able to kill plants and viruses with impunity, for example, except as our aesthetic sensibilities prevent us from doing so. There should be ethical concerns with killing of animals because of the potential for disease, arbitrary emotional attachment, utility, etc. But for Moral reasons? I don't think so. You might say that executing the last dodo was an immoral act, and I would say it was instead an unethical act, because its destruction as a species violates only a) its role in an amoral environment, and b) our own sense of aesthetics.
Going up on the scale, once you encounter the moral dividing line, anything that is moral should be applied to everyone, including hyperhumans.
On a side note, even if the hyperhumans have an additional, unseen, unknowable morality, this doesn't mean that humans shouldn't complain bitterly about the seemingly arbitrary punishments doled out to them. By not endowing humans the ability to understand their punishment by death (yet understanding the immediacy of the punishment itself), the hyperhumans have permitted, by omission, the plaintive wailing of the damned.
Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings forgotten. -- George Orwell, 1984
Post #28
Why are animals immoral? Why are humans more moral than animals? If a dog bit someone, does anyone care if it was acting in the best interest of it's pack, or simply on the fact he/ she was bitten?Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but doesn't morality start when you get to the human level?
There are various ethical considerations with regards to the killing of animals, but I don't think that would be a religious/moral issue, would it?
I think there are some laws in the Bible eg "Do not boil a goat in it's mother's milk", "if an ox gores another ox", and other religions regard animals such as cows or monkeys sacred.
Not sure, but you can get a different moral code among humans if you look I guess.And since morals apply when you get to the level of humans, I would think that those same morals apply when you get to a being who is above humans. Is there yet another moral code when you get up there?
'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
-
McCulloch
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Post #29
At various times in human history, ST88's moral continuum might have been drawn differently.
[mrow]ST88's original[mcol]Antebellum South[mcol]hyperhumans speculatively[mcol]Children of Israel[row]↑ hyperhumans
| humans
| Republicans
| ← (morals begin here)
| Animals
| Plants
↓ various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.[col]↑ hyperhumans
| whites
| asians
| ← (morals begin here)
| blacks
| Animals
| Plants
↓ various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.[col]↑ hyperhumans
| ← (morals begin here)
| humans
| Animals
| Plants
↓ various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.[col]↑ God's Chosen People
| ← (higher moral apply here)
| Wives and children of God's Chosen People
| Slaves and servants of God's Chosen People
| Sojourners
| ← (morals begin here)
| Enemies of God's Chosen People
| Animals
| Plants
↓ various colonial and one-celled organisms, viruses, etc.
Going up on the scale, once you encounter the moral dividing line, anything that is moral should be applied to everyone, including hyperhumans.
Who's to say which is the correct one?
Who's to say which is the correct one?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
