The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

To all,

In my OP I asked 5 simple questions. To make it easy for everyone I will ask those questions one at a time:

What does the atonement do or does not do?

I look forward to your responses.

Kind regards,
RW

It has been explained quite well already. How can the Bible be any clearer? "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is their being declared righteous for life. For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous....To what end? So that just as sin ruled as king with death, so also grace might rule as king through righteousness leading to everlasting life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:18,19,21)

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

Thank you for your response, but you still did not answer the question. "What does the atonement do or not do"?
You claim that by the choice of one person many were made sinners.
I would ask you how many were made sinners?
And what sin or sins did that man make many others commit?

My position is that mankind will be PUNISHED FOR THEIR OWN SINS AND NOT FOR ADAMS TRANSGRESSION.

Let's hear your response.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear onewithhim,

Thank you for your response, but you still did not answer the question. "What does the atonement do or not do"?
You claim that by the choice of one person many were made sinners.
I would ask you how many were made sinners?
And what sin or sins did that man make many others commit?

My position is that mankind will be PUNISHED FOR THEIR OWN SINS AND NOT FOR ADAMS TRANSGRESSION.

Let's hear your response.

Kind regards,
RW

Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam. Something perfect can't come from something that is damaged. We die because of that. Now, the way out of that conundrum is to take the gift that Jehovah is giving us---the ransom paid for our non-deliberate sins by the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yes, he died for OUR sins. We can't help many of them. (We CAN desist from carrying out DELIBERATE sins---sins that we know are against God's laws and yet we do them anyway, like serious badness of great proportion such as fornication, murder, idolatry, etc.) Jesus didn't die for deliberate sins, but for unintentional sins or sincere weakness-at-the-moment sins (like me slapping my mother, for instance, and then feeling sorry afterward).

"If we sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." (Heb.10:26)

Jesus paid for our inherited sin, but not intentional sin, as is clear from the verse above.

All we have to do is accept that and then follow as closely as we can in Jesus' footsteps. (I Peter 2:21)

.

[William]

To all true Christians

Informal fallacy

there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Atonement meaning = "the action of making amends for a wrong or injury."

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

How so?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

Atonement meaning = "the action of making amends for a wrong or injury." it does that. What it does not do is whatever is outside of what it does do.

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What "full benefits"?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

That would depend on the action of making amends for a wrong or injury...which action is being atoned for?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

Probably. The internet is a great device for doing stuff like that.

[Revelations won]

[JehovahsWitness]

[onewithhim]

RW, are you including the Book of Mormon in this? That piece of rag doesn't have any say in our discussions. We're going by the Bible.

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

You asked : "So, in a nutshell...what is Atonement and what does it do and not do?"

In a nutshell the infinite and eternal atonement that only Jesus Christ could provide allows mankind to obtain forgiveness of ones sins on condition of repentance. The great atonement is the plan of God the Father which was implemented long before the foundations of the earth were even laid. According to the Bible Our savior and redeemer was in fact foreordained to this very sacred mission.

We mortals are not capable of providing the great atonement which was his divine sacrifice according to God's foreordained plan. You should be fully aware that I cannot atone for your sins and you cannot atone for my sins, nor is any other fully mortal person capable of providing the infinite and eternal atonement that Christ, being the only begotten son of God in the flesh has provided.

The atonement is not based on quid pro quo, but is based on love and mercy.

The atonement as clearly explained in my last post shows that the atonement of Christ does not atone for unrepentant sins. We individually have a clear responsibility to first repent of our sins which then allows the atoning blood of Christ to apply and provide forgiveness of the repented sin.

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

You next said: "Something perfect can't come from something that is damaged. We die because of that. Now, the way out of that conundrum is to take the gift that Jehovah is giving us---the ransom paid for our non-deliberate sins by the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yes, he died for OUR sins.

My response: What you are saying here is that we cannot become perfect! Remember Christ commanded us to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Are you claiming that Christ asked us to do the impossible? As I understand it, you are teaching the doctrine that with God some things are not possible. Please explain.

Additionally the scriptures clearly demonstrate "that though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered, and being made perfect became the author of our salvation.

You next said: " We can't help many of them. (We CAN desist from carrying out DELIBERATE sins---sins that we know are against God's laws and yet we do them anyway, like serious badness of great proportion such as fornication, murder, idolatry, etc.) Jesus didn't die for deliberate sins, but for unintentional sins or sincere weakness-at-the-moment sins (like me slapping my mother, for instance, and then feeling sorry afterward).

"If we sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." (Heb.10:26)

Jesus paid for our inherited sin, but not intentional sin, as is clear from the verse above."

My response: Your self imposed limitations on Christs atonement appear to not be in conformity with other scriptures. If everyone were to fully endorse your private interpretation, then there would be an extremely limited number who could qualify to be forgiven and saved. Out of the billions of Gods children how many do you thing will be saved. But to make it easier to calculate how many in the United States of America could be partakers of the salvation provided by Jesus Christ?


I look forward to your clear responses to the above.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear JW,

You asked : "So, in a nutshell...what is Atonement and what does it do and not do?"

In a nutshell the infinite and eternal atonement that only Jesus Christ could provide allows mankind to obtain forgiveness of ones sins on condition of repentance. The great atonement is the plan of God the Father which was implemented long before the foundations of the earth were even laid.

No, there is a great misunderstanding of what "the world" means, and the verse says "world" and NOT "earth." Jesus' ransom was planned before the foundations of the WORLD, and that means the world of mankind alienated from God, not the planet. It is the "world" that is talked about at I John 2:15-17. When Adam rebelled, the "world" had not started yet. It would begin with the birth of Cain. So when Adam disobeyed, Jehovah planned to provide a ransom for the world of mankind, and this was "before the foundation of the world" [alienated from God] that started with Cain. Jesus was not planned to redeem mankind before Adam failed to remain faithful to God. Only afterward. If Adam had remained faithful, Jesus would never have had to come to the earth.