From a discussion in another thread with Purple Knight.
Do you believe in ghosts? Please feel free to add any more information as a post in this thread, such as a story where you encountered something you believe was a ghost, etc.
The Existence of Ghosts
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benchwarmer
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #2[Replying to Kylie in post #1]
What exactly do you mean by 'ghost'? That would drive my answer to the poll. For now I picked other as I don't know exactly what we are talking about.
In short, I am always open to changing my mind when presented with convincing (to me) evidence. It happens all the time. Especially when my wife is glaring at me and pointing to the evidence
What exactly do you mean by 'ghost'? That would drive my answer to the poll. For now I picked other as I don't know exactly what we are talking about.
In short, I am always open to changing my mind when presented with convincing (to me) evidence. It happens all the time. Especially when my wife is glaring at me and pointing to the evidence
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Kylie
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #3The general idea of a ghost, a spirit of a person left behind after that person's body dies. Of course, if someone has a different view of ghosts, then I'm happy to accept that as well.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:01 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #1]
What exactly do you mean by 'ghost'? That would drive my answer to the poll. For now I picked other as I don't know exactly what we are talking about.
In short, I am always open to changing my mind when presented with convincing (to me) evidence. It happens all the time. Especially when my wife is glaring at me and pointing to the evidence
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Diagoras
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #4Since definitive proof remains absent despite huge efforts to show ghosts are real, and their existence is impossible to falsify, I have to answer ‘No - but open to evidence’.
Given the adage “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, my answer’s a lot closer to “No, and nothing will change my mind” than “I don’t know either way”. I’m not even sure that I’d accept the evidence of my own eyes if I ‘saw a ghost’. Perhaps if I saw it along with a group of other people I knew and trusted, it showed up clearly on camera from multiple angles/sources, and it imparted information that I knew couldn’t be known by anyone else (perhaps a very specific personal fact about my family). At that point, I’d likely conclude that the chances of such a mass hallucination/technology glitch were smaller than the chance that there was a spirit world that interacted with the real one.
As a kid, I did have a collection of ghost stories and found some of them quite compelling. But growing up, I discovered that quite mundane explanations would frequently work just as well for what I’d previously believed to be fantastical. Understanding the awe and wonder of the natural world is a fine reward for those willing to replace critical thinking for superstitious tales.
Given the adage “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, my answer’s a lot closer to “No, and nothing will change my mind” than “I don’t know either way”. I’m not even sure that I’d accept the evidence of my own eyes if I ‘saw a ghost’. Perhaps if I saw it along with a group of other people I knew and trusted, it showed up clearly on camera from multiple angles/sources, and it imparted information that I knew couldn’t be known by anyone else (perhaps a very specific personal fact about my family). At that point, I’d likely conclude that the chances of such a mass hallucination/technology glitch were smaller than the chance that there was a spirit world that interacted with the real one.
As a kid, I did have a collection of ghost stories and found some of them quite compelling. But growing up, I discovered that quite mundane explanations would frequently work just as well for what I’d previously believed to be fantastical. Understanding the awe and wonder of the natural world is a fine reward for those willing to replace critical thinking for superstitious tales.
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Tcg
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #5[Replying to Kylie in post #1]
During my college days I worked as a security guard for my school. The main academic building was a hodgepodge of both old and new sections and additions. When you worked your graveyard shifts there by yourself, you'd hear all kinds of strange noises. Fellow guards shared stories of hearing voices and some even swore they saw ghosts looking at them through windows.
These stories and the noises I'd hear would play in my mind especially late in the shift as sleepiness set in. I decided to investigate the source of these noises to ease my worry. One of the main sources was from automatic door shutters that took some time to close the door completely and when they did there'd be a slight bang. Another key source was from the old steam pipes and radiators in the older sections and heating vents in the newer.
I'd estimate there where about 50 different noises. I was able to identify the cause of all but 2 or 3. Having found these causes and knowing they all had mechanical sources, I was able to conquer the fear I sometimes experienced. Clearly the mind can play tricks on you especially late at night. I was convinced that the source of the "voices" and "ghosts" was in the imagination of those hearing these odd noises. When I shared my findings with other guards, some disregarded them. It was almost as if they wanted to hold onto the suspense and mystery.
This certainly doesn't prove that all similar tales of ghosts can be easily explained, but I am convinced it explains many. Enough that I am convinced that ghosts don't exist.
Tcg
During my college days I worked as a security guard for my school. The main academic building was a hodgepodge of both old and new sections and additions. When you worked your graveyard shifts there by yourself, you'd hear all kinds of strange noises. Fellow guards shared stories of hearing voices and some even swore they saw ghosts looking at them through windows.
These stories and the noises I'd hear would play in my mind especially late in the shift as sleepiness set in. I decided to investigate the source of these noises to ease my worry. One of the main sources was from automatic door shutters that took some time to close the door completely and when they did there'd be a slight bang. Another key source was from the old steam pipes and radiators in the older sections and heating vents in the newer.
I'd estimate there where about 50 different noises. I was able to identify the cause of all but 2 or 3. Having found these causes and knowing they all had mechanical sources, I was able to conquer the fear I sometimes experienced. Clearly the mind can play tricks on you especially late at night. I was convinced that the source of the "voices" and "ghosts" was in the imagination of those hearing these odd noises. When I shared my findings with other guards, some disregarded them. It was almost as if they wanted to hold onto the suspense and mystery.
This certainly doesn't prove that all similar tales of ghosts can be easily explained, but I am convinced it explains many. Enough that I am convinced that ghosts don't exist.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Kenisaw
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #6[Replying to Kylie in post #1]
Spirits/souls/ghosts do not exist. There is zero empirical data for them.
Jillette Penn asked once why they always appear clothed. Do their outfits have souls too?
Spirits/souls/ghosts do not exist. There is zero empirical data for them.
Jillette Penn asked once why they always appear clothed. Do their outfits have souls too?
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Athetotheist
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #7I believe that ghosts may exist, and would have to be presented with highly compelling alternate explanations for certain personal experiences to be moved to abandon that position.
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Kylie
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #8What do you think of TCG's post?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:08 pm I believe that ghosts may exist, and would have to be presented with highly compelling alternate explanations for certain personal experiences to be moved to abandon that position.
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Athetotheist
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #9[Replying to Kylie in post #8]
Tcg was able to account for most of what was going on in that situation, but Tcg's experience isn't my experience. When a door you're looking right at starts to open slowly and then shuts with force and no one visible is anywhere near it, it makes you wonder----especially after being told by others of the same door doing the same thing. When you're on a balcony in a large upstairs room in a building and you hear footsteps cross the wood floor below in the dark and suddenly stop, it makes you wonder----especially when the people downstairs tell you later that none of them had been up there.
Could someone have come in through the door under the balcony and walked across the room? Maybe, but I don't know where they could have gotten to when I turned the lights on and found no one there. Could the door have been shut by an air current moving through the house? Perhaps, though it doesn't seem likely as I remember it happening on a winter night when all the windows would have been closed.
I don't claim to be able to prove any of this to anyone. That's why I conclude that ghosts may exist which, under my own circumstances, I don't think is too unreasonable a position to take.
Tcg was able to account for most of what was going on in that situation, but Tcg's experience isn't my experience. When a door you're looking right at starts to open slowly and then shuts with force and no one visible is anywhere near it, it makes you wonder----especially after being told by others of the same door doing the same thing. When you're on a balcony in a large upstairs room in a building and you hear footsteps cross the wood floor below in the dark and suddenly stop, it makes you wonder----especially when the people downstairs tell you later that none of them had been up there.
Could someone have come in through the door under the balcony and walked across the room? Maybe, but I don't know where they could have gotten to when I turned the lights on and found no one there. Could the door have been shut by an air current moving through the house? Perhaps, though it doesn't seem likely as I remember it happening on a winter night when all the windows would have been closed.
I don't claim to be able to prove any of this to anyone. That's why I conclude that ghosts may exist which, under my own circumstances, I don't think is too unreasonable a position to take.
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Diagoras
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Re: The Existence of Ghosts
Post #10[Replying to Athetotheist in post #9]
The question anyone should really consider on these sorts of circumstances is:
“Does a natural but unlikely cause provide a better explanation than a supernatural cause?”
Especially something like footsteps: a moment’s thought would suggest that since sound is a pressure wave caused by something physical, those footsteps need a real foot to produce. So how could any ‘spirit’ or ghost affect the physical world in the same way a real person could?
The question anyone should really consider on these sorts of circumstances is:
“Does a natural but unlikely cause provide a better explanation than a supernatural cause?”
Especially something like footsteps: a moment’s thought would suggest that since sound is a pressure wave caused by something physical, those footsteps need a real foot to produce. So how could any ‘spirit’ or ghost affect the physical world in the same way a real person could?
