What comes first, family or God?

[nobspeople]

The below link is lengthy (about 60 minutes), but speaks, in part, about how one's religious beliefs in a religion can cause families to fracture. We see this happen in families of no religion, Scientologists, Mormons, Catholics, JWs (as in this example) etc.
While this doesn't always happen, at what point does one (or should one) put their belief system before their family?
Does God command such a thing, or is it something the religion dictates only?

[JehovahsWitness]

You obviously 'over looked' the other links, only using the one that you think reinforced your argument.

My point was about the teachings and practices of Jehovahs Witnesses. The only place you will find our official teachings is at www.jw.org, so that is the only site which is relevant to this point.

As for personal testimonies, I dont see why anyone elses testimony should carry any more weight than my own, since I am one of Jehovahs Witnesses myself, and know the family history of hundreds of other Witnesses. Unless you are suggesting you can produce 8.5 million testimonies to the contrary, the existing balance supports my own experience, namely that the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses improve (not destroy) family bonds.





JW

[nobspeople]

So could it be said a bad wife is a curse from God?

So, you've not spent much time reading Proverbs, then?

A worthy woman is the crown of her husband,
but a disgraceful wife is as rottenness in his bones. (12:4)

A foolish son is the calamity of his father.
A wife’s quarrels are a continual dripping. (19:13)

A continual dropping on a rainy day
and a contentious wife are alike:
restraining her is like restraining the wind,
or like grasping oil in his right hand. (27:16-17)

It's good to see that women weren't seen as objects or anything
But I'm sure someone has a way to justify this ideals.

[Tcg]

Are you suggesting a policy of excluding child abusers or adulters or any other deviant moral behaviour weakens, endangers or breaks up families? As I said, Jehovahs Witnesses have teachings that strengthens families including protecting them from moral or physical harm.

The myriad reports of sexual abuse and protection of the abusers within the JW organization tell a very different story:

Spotlight on sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witness religion

The two witness rule

Misdemeanours within the Jehovah’s Witness community are dealt with by the ‘two witness’ rule. Allegations of sexual abuse are supposed to be reported to church elders (who are always men), who will take further action if there is a second witness to the offence. If the perpetrator admits the abuse or if there is a second witness they will be called before a judicial committee. This can cause further angst and trauma to the victim.

The difficulty with the two witness rule is that there are rarely witnesses to sexual abuse – the nature of sexual abuse and the evil of it is that it happens in secret.

It has been recorded that victims who report sexual abuse can be “disfellowshipped” for making such allegations. In other words they are forced to leave both their family and the church. Disclosure is therefore prohibitive.

https://www.emmottsnell.co.uk/blog/spot ... s-religion

The so called "two witness rule", which an absurdity when it comes to sexual abuse, does the opposite of protecting members from sexual abuse and in fact fosters a perfect environment for the abusers to operate.

How this could be seen as a teaching that "strengthens families including protecting them from moral or physical harm" is quite baffling.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you suggesting a policy of excluding child abusers or adulters or any other deviant moral behaviour weakens, endangers or breaks up families? As I said, Jehovahs Witnesses have teachings that strengthens families including protecting them from moral or physical harm.

The myriad reports of sexual abuse and protection of the abusers within the JW organization tell a very different

Jehovahs Witnesses do not have a policy of "protection of the abusers " and have a history of conforming to the law. As for the numbers, are you suggesting Jehovahs Witnesses have a higher rate of sexual abuse amongst their membership than the general populace?




JW





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viewtopic.php?p=1029442#p1029442

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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , CHURCH LEADERSHIP and ... CHILD ABUSE

[brunumb]

The so called "two witness rule", which an absurdity when it comes to sexual abuse, does the opposite of protecting members from sexual abuse and in fact fosters a perfect environment for the abusers to operate.

Religious organisations provide ideal havens for sexual predators. Allegedly devout believers in God, who are in the ranks of the clergy in particular, are given undue trust and respect putting them in an ideal position to avoid close scrutiny. As you stated, the two witness rule is a perfect screen to protect abusers who are obviously going to make sure that there are no witnesses other than their accuser. The testimony of accusers that have gone public makes for appalling reading/viewing. It has brought me to tears on occasion. One gets the distinct impression that the judging panel's probing and insensitive questioning is something straight out of the Inquisition. They might even be getting titillated themselves. Worst of all, the victim is essentially treated as being guilty of lying which only adds to their trauma. Why would someone make up stories of sexual abuse if they only lead to so much pain and anguish?

[Paul of Tarsus]

Well I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I can say my family has only been strengthened by the fact that we stick to bible standards.

We have much bible based advice on how to strengthen family bonds and do not tolerate divorce on frivolous gounds.

I've had a Jehovah's Witness tell me that they will destroy a marriage if one of the spouses threatens the faith of the other. I suppose endangering the faith of a spouse is not considered "frivolous grounds" for divorce.

Contrary to popular belief, we are not taught to discontinue contact with family members who do not share our faith or who choose not to continue in our religion as long as such contact does not represent a physical, emotional or spiritual danger.

It is entirely baseless to insinuate JWs teachings break up families.

When I visited a Kingdom Hall, I heard a testimony of a Jehovah's Witness who said his son left the Jehovah's Witnesses. His response to his son's leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses was to kick him out of the house. While his son was leaving, his father stopped him. His son turned to him with happiness assuming his father had changed his mind. His son turned out to be sadly mistaken when he realized that the real reason his father stopped him was to demand that his son return his luggage!

Upon hearing this story, the Jehovah's Witnesses there expressed strong approval of what the man had done to his son.

So JW, need any of you be surprised when you go door-to-door that some people will meet you with loaded guns in their hands?

[William]

The so called "two witness rule", which an absurdity when it comes to sexual abuse, does the opposite of protecting members from sexual abuse and in fact fosters a perfect environment for the abusers to operate.

Religious organisations provide ideal havens for sexual predators. Allegedly devout believers in God, who are in the ranks of the clergy in particular, are given undue trust and respect putting them in an ideal position to avoid close scrutiny. As you stated, the two witness rule is a perfect screen to protect abusers who are obviously going to make sure that there are no witnesses other than their accuser. The testimony of accusers that have gone public makes for appalling reading/viewing. It has brought me to tears on occasion. One gets the distinct impression that the judging panel's probing and insensitive questioning is something straight out of the Inquisition. They might even be getting titillated themselves. Worst of all, the victim is essentially treated as being guilty of lying which only adds to their trauma. Why would someone make up stories of sexual abuse if they only lead to so much pain and anguish?

I suppose too, that if victims know they will treated as if they were lying, they are less likely to speak up. The authorities which might be able to help the the victims, have been taught by the leaders of the org, to be "of the devil' and therefore "not to be trusted" (or even voted for).

A warm moist place in which to germinate abusive behaviors...

[nobspeople]

Well I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I can say my family has only been strengthened by the fact that we stick to bible standards.

We have much bible based advice on how to strengthen family bonds and do not tolerate divorce on frivolous gounds.

I've had a Jehovah's Witness tell me that they will destroy a marriage if one of the spouses threatens the faith of the other. I suppose endangering the faith of a spouse is not considered "frivolous grounds" for divorce.

Contrary to popular belief, we are not taught to discontinue contact with family members who do not share our faith or who choose not to continue in our religion as long as such contact does not represent a physical, emotional or spiritual danger.

It is entirely baseless to insinuate JWs teachings break up families.

When I visited a Kingdom Hall, I heard a testimony of a Jehovah's Witness who said his son left the Jehovah's Witnesses. His response to his son's leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses was to kick him out of the house. While his son was leaving, his father stopped him. His son turned to him with happiness assuming his father had changed his mind. His son turned out to be sadly mistaken when he realized that the real reason his father stopped him was to demand that his son return his luggage!

Upon hearing this story, the Jehovah's Witnesses there expressed strong approval of what the man had done to his son.

So JW, need any of you be surprised when you go door-to-door that some people will meet you with loaded guns in their hands?

As I said originally, which JW here seemed to 'over look' it appears, is this may not apply to all sects of their belief system. But from what I've been told and seen, every JW sect has this same, if not very similar, way of handling the situation. If that's what they want to do, fine. But they don't need to lie about it and try to make it out to be something all 'sugar and spice'. Just own in.

[nobspeople]

The so called "two witness rule", which an absurdity when it comes to sexual abuse, does the opposite of protecting members from sexual abuse and in fact fosters a perfect environment for the abusers to operate.

Religious organisations provide ideal havens for sexual predators. Allegedly devout believers in God, who are in the ranks of the clergy in particular, are given undue trust and respect putting them in an ideal position to avoid close scrutiny. As you stated, the two witness rule is a perfect screen to protect abusers who are obviously going to make sure that there are no witnesses other than their accuser. The testimony of accusers that have gone public makes for appalling reading/viewing. It has brought me to tears on occasion. One gets the distinct impression that the judging panel's probing and insensitive questioning is something straight out of the Inquisition. They might even be getting titillated themselves. Worst of all, the victim is essentially treated as being guilty of lying which only adds to their trauma. Why would someone make up stories of sexual abuse if they only lead to so much pain and anguish?

I think we always need to be a bit skeptical of such accusations if we're not directly involved initially (I'm not saying you're NOT saying this - my comment is made in general).
Some people do make up stories: my step sister made up a similar allegation to her mother's girlfriend in order to break them up so she could spend more time with her mother.
That all said, all accusations should be investigated legitimately and immediately, before we hold judgement on any party involved IMO. However, once the evidence is made to show 'whatever', we should hold up the guilty party accountable. And, if found guilty, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and, if the guilty party is an organization OR member of that organization, they shouldn't be protected in any way, shape or form.

[Tcg]

Jehovahs Witnesses do not have a policy of "protection of the abusers " and have a history of conforming to the law.

JW

The evidence suggests otherwise:

Victims 'told not to report' Jehovah's Witness child abuse

Children who were sexually abused by Jehovah's Witnesses were allegedly told by the organisation not to report it.

Victims from across the UK told the BBC they were routinely abused and that the religion's own rules protected perpetrators.

One child abuse lawyer believes there could be thousands of victims across the country who have not come forward.

The organisation said it did not "shield" abusers and any suggestion of a cover-up was "absolutely false".

'Bring reproach on Jehovah'

BBC Hereford and Worcester spoke to victims - men and women - from Birmingham, Cheltenham, Leicester, Worcestershire and Glasgow, one of whom waived her right to anonymity.

Louise Palmer, who now lives in Evesham, Worcestershire, was born into the organisation along with her brother Richard Davenport, who started raping her when she was four. He is serving a 10-year prison sentence for the abuse.

The 41-year-old, formerly of Halesowen, West Midlands, said she was told not to go to police.

"I asked [the organisation], 'what should I do? Do you report it to the police, [or] do I report it to the police'?

"And their words were that they strongly advised me not to go to the police because it would bring reproach on Jehovah."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-42025255

Denial of the facts do not change them.

In this case we see that some feel that even Jehovah needs protection to the extent that sexual abuse is not reported.


Tcg