why all the incompatibility?

huberart · Post by **huberart** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:09 pm

Modern science was catapulted by thinkers trying to infer god through measurable means (Isaac Newton is a prime example); so where sis the separation happen when did science become so opposed with the concept of god, and furthermore why is there so little actual scientific research that attempts to prove god?

Is god measurable?

I would say yes. By definition god is an omnipotent, and omniscient being. Meaning, god is at all time in everyplace of the universe, and capable of influencing it at his whim. Therefore making god both "the big eye in the sky", and the thing turning the wheels of the universe. So wouldn't it be logical to assume that any measurable thing within the universe is being or has been influenced by god, and we can see his haniwork so-to-say in anything from atomic weight to weather patterns?

this is just an idea I've been tinkering with over the last two years. Theres a lot more to it, but it's not as fully developed as I would like so if you have any questions

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:26 pm

QED wrote:
katiej49 wrote:hey God generally doesnt respond to requests when the only reason is to test Him. "hey uh...God, i dare ya to light up this bulb to prove you exist"....what kind of God would He be if He responded with a quick YES to our every little request.....
Well, for one thing, he'd be a God whose existence no rational person could doubt.

no choice but to worship Him then...yet many say they wouldnt worship Him even if they knew He existed. no choice and there goes the love relationship, which is what God wants.
katiej49 wrote:hey we'd be in big trouble if He did, because we as humans are at times...well, stupid. We just dont know enough to know whats best at times. Jesus didnt always give direct answers to people. He often answered in ways that made them think.
Doesn't that strikes you as being a little odd when so much of Christianity is about a self-imposed system of not thinking awkward thoughts (having doubts). There's so much certainty expressed in every Christian belief -- no wiggle room for doubt. That's hard to reconcile with the diverse range of possibilities that actually present themselves.

no wiggle room for doubt? remember Thomas? God loves honest doubters and sincere question and seekers.
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QED · Post by **QED** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:16 am

katiej49 wrote:
QED wrote: Well, for one thing, he'd be a God whose existence no rational person could doubt.
no choice but to worship Him then...yet many say they wouldnt worship Him even if they knew He existed. no choice and there goes the love relationship, which is what God wants.

No way does that stack up katie -- history is replete with Kings and Queens for people to worship, or not, if they so chose deep down inside. The test you're alluding to is one of faith. It's as though the rational mind was being asked to sacrifice itself, like a burnt offering, before the alter erected by those men who claim to be on the end of a divine telephone line to God.

Let's face it, whether they did or not, men could set up their stalls like this and their biggest worry would be that people would think about it rationally and walk away. The one thing they would need us to do is suspend our normal critical faculties and so create a string of arguments such as "the spell will be broken if God showed himself". Too true!

katiej49 wrote:no wiggle room for doubt? remember Thomas? God loves honest doubters and sincere question and seekers.

But the story goes that Thomas was able to feel Jesus' wounds before being convinced of his resurrection doesn't it? This smacks of a patronizing attempt to accommodate the critic by handing out a story sheet purporting to show that the critic can actually test things for him self and draw an empirical conclusion. But isn't this itself just another untouchable fantasy?

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:24 am

QED wrote:
katiej49 wrote:
QED wrote: Well, for one thing, he'd be a God whose existence no rational person could doubt.
no choice but to worship Him then...yet many say they wouldnt worship Him even if they knew He existed. no choice and there goes the love relationship, which is what God wants.
No way does that stack up katie -- history is replete with Kings and Queens for people to worship, or not, if they so chose deep down inside. The test you're alluding to is one of faith. It's as though the rational mind was being asked to sacrifice itself, like a burnt offering, before the alter erected by those men who claim to be on the end of a divine telephone line to God.

Let's face it, whether they did or not, men could set up their stalls like this and their biggest worry would be that people would think about it rationally and walk away. The one thing they would need us to do is suspend our normal critical faculties and so create a string of arguments such as "the spell will be broken if God showed himself". Too true!

katiej49 wrote:no wiggle room for doubt? remember Thomas? God loves honest doubters and sincere question and seekers.
But the story goes that Thomas was able to feel Jesus' wounds before being convinced of his resurrection doesn't it? This smacks of a patronizing attempt to accommodate the critic by handing out a story sheet purporting to show that the critic can actually test things for him self and draw an empirical conclusion. But isn't this itself just another untouchable fantasy?

if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:27 am

katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?[

If someone came up to you , claiming to be the second coming of Christ, would you follow him?

QED · Post by **QED** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:49 am

katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?

That question is assembled from words that are no doubt very familiar to you and highly charged with all kinds of emotions -- but in the absence of the indoctrination you have experienced they sound just like this to me:

"If Thor appeared to you and you felt His Hammer, would you worship Him?"

You can probably take whatever answer you would give to that question as my answer to yours.

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:37 pm

QED wrote:
katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?
That question is assembled from words that are no doubt very familiar to you and highly charged with all kinds of emotions -- but in the absence of the indoctrination you have experienced they sound just like this to me:

"If Thor appeared to you and you felt His Hammer, would you worship Him?"

You can probably take whatever answer you would give to that question as my answer to yours.

well yes when i type a sentence is is with words i am familiar with. still it didnt answer the question, which was...would you worship Jesus?

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:38 pm

goat wrote:
katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?[
If someone came up to you , claiming to be the second coming of Christ, would you follow him?

there will be no doubt to anyone when Jesus returns. "every knee will bow"

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:59 pm

katiej49 wrote:
QED wrote:
katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?
That question is assembled from words that are no doubt very familiar to you and highly charged with all kinds of emotions -- but in the absence of the indoctrination you have experienced they sound just like this to me:

"If Thor appeared to you and you felt His Hammer, would you worship Him?"

You can probably take whatever answer you would give to that question as my answer to yours.

well yes when i type a sentence is is with words i am familiar with. still it didnt answer the question, which was...would you worship Jesus?

No, I worship God, not Jesus.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:01 pm

katiej49 wrote:
goat wrote:
katiej49 wrote: if Jesus appeared to you and you felt His wounds, would you worship Him?[
If someone came up to you , claiming to be the second coming of Christ, would you follow him?
there will be no doubt to anyone when Jesus returns. "every knee will bow"

People have been waiting almost 2000 years. And this is what the New Testament says about Jesus coming back

Hebrews 10:37 - For in just a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.

James 5:7-9 - Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. . . You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.

1 Peter 1:20 - He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

1 Peter 4:7 - The end of all things is near.

Rev. 22:20 - Surely I come quickly

Obviously, somebody got it wrong.

QED · Post by **QED** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:14 pm

katiej49 wrote: well yes when i type a sentence is is with words i am familiar with. still it didnt answer the question, which was...would you worship Jesus?

I gave you a device that answers your question by proxy:

"If Thor appeared to you and you felt His Hammer, would you worship Him?"

I'm hoping that you'll understand that your question is as meaningless and hence unanswerable to me as my question should be to you.