Evolution vs Religion in modern behavior

[Confused]

Looking at our past in terms of scientific evolution and comparing it with the past in terms of religious evolution, I have to wonder:

1) How much of modern society (culture, politics,economics, etc) can be explained by our evolutionary past (evolutionary economics etc) as opposed to our religious past?

2) How much of modern behavior is explained by evolutionary history (nature vs nurture) as opposed to religious history?

[Cathar1950]

Looking at our past in terms of scientific evolution and comparing it with the past in terms of religious evolution, I have to wonder:

1) How much of modern society (culture, politics,economics, etc) can be explained by our evolutionary past (evolutionary economics etc) as opposed to our religious past?

2) How much of modern behavior is explained by evolutionary history (nature vs nurture) as opposed to religious history?

All of it.
It makes perfect sense in terms of eveolution and history. After all evolution is history.

[Confused]

Looking at our past in terms of scientific evolution and comparing it with the past in terms of religious evolution, I have to wonder:

1) How much of modern society (culture, politics,economics, etc) can be explained by our evolutionary past (evolutionary economics etc) as opposed to our religious past?

2) How much of modern behavior is explained by evolutionary history (nature vs nurture) as opposed to religious history?

All of it.
It makes perfect sense in terms of evolution and history. After all evolution is history.

How can we consider evolution a factor in modern behavior. I know developmental evolutionists still can't decide which is more: nature vs nurture. If nature is the primary determinant in human behavior, then our genetic makeup combined with all of our ancestors makeup contributes to our current behaviors as well as our societal structure (ie: wanderers to hunters and gatherers to settled tribes etc...). This all would contribute to current sociological patterns. However, if nurture is the primary determinant, then we must consider the religious influence in our current behaviors as well as societies simply because at one point, religion dictated society.

[bernee51]

How can we consider evolution a factor in modern behavior. I know developmental evolutionists still can't decide which is more: nature vs nurture. If nature is the primary determinant in human behavior, then our genetic makeup combined with all of our ancestors makeup contributes to our current behaviors as well as our societal structure (ie: wanderers to hunters and gatherers to settled tribes etc...). This all would contribute to current sociological patterns. However, if nurture is the primary determinant, then we must consider the religious influence in our current behaviors as well as societies simply because at one point, religion dictated society.

Consider the evolution of human consciousness. The stages match pretty well with the development of human consciousness over time in an individual as described by modern developmental psychology.

Religion can be seen as a integral in the evolution of society and, in fact, has itself evolved.

The full discussion can be found here

c. 100,000+ years ago

• An individual uses instincts and habits just to survive
  The distinct self is barely awakened or sustained
  Food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority over anything else

c. 50,000 years ago

• Thinking is animistic; magical spirits—both good and bad
  Obeying the desires of spirit beings and mystical signs
  Showing allegiance to chief, elders, ancestors, and the clan
  Preserving sacred objects, places, events, and memories
  Observing rites of passage, seasonal cycles, and tribal customs

c.10,000 years ago.

• The world is seen as a jungle full of threats and predators
  The individual breaks free from any constraints to please self as self desires
  The individual stands tall, expects attention, demands respect, calls the shots
  The individual enjoys himself to the fullest, right now without guilt or remorse
  The individual conquers, out-foxes, and dominates other aggressive characters
  An overly developed ethnic identity can lead to genocidal wars, slavery, and racism
  The individual believes that: "I am special, I'll live forever, I am immortal, not like the others."

c. 5,000 years ago

• Sacrificing of the self to the transcendent Cause, Truth, or righteous Pathway.
  Allowing the Order to enforce a code of conduct based on eternal, absolute unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong"—there is one right way to live and deviations punished from the path are punished.
  Following the right path produces security now and guarantees future reward; if you don't follow the path, well, you've made your choices.
  Displaying missionary zealotry, which can be short on evidence and long on belief and faith, as well as closed minds.
  Engaging in pleasurable acts is seen as frivolous; humor is rare; actions are based in judgment not compassion, although there is a lot of talk about compassion.
  Operating from a fundamentalist, conventional, traditional, and conformist worldview.

c. 300 years ago

• Strongly expressed individualism; Developed human rights, legal freedoms, free markets, capitalistic democracies
  Strong faith in science and rationality, which eclipse superstition
  Seeking to live the "good life" with material abundance
  Believe that optimistic, risk-taking, and self-reliant people deserve their success
  Play to win and enjoy competition; very success driven
  Basing principles on ethics, not religion
  Ignoring of inner spirituality to a high degree; the subsequent loss of the sacred

c. 150 years ago

• Becomes more aware of the suffering of the world, of other sentient beings
  The human spirit must be freed from greed, dogma, and divisiveness
  Feelings, sensitivity, and caring supersede cold rationality
  Share the Earth's resources and opportunities equally among all
  Reach decisions through consensus processes
  Anti-authoritarian and against hierarchy; establishes lateral bonding and linking
  All values are pluralistic and relativistic; no one should be marginalized
  Environmentalism becomes a socio-political movement
  A fundamental belief is "All people are good; it's society that makes them bad." Highly idealistic.
  Can create cults of victims and censorship through politically correct thinking; can also be politically dogmatic.

[Confused]

Wow. Bernee. You summed it all up in one post. This is a first. I am stumped to find a flaw in your post. Of course I will have to try, but, wow.

[bernee51]

Wow. Bernee. You summed it all up in one post. This is a first. I am stumped to find a flaw in your post. Of course I will have to try, but, wow.

Thanks M. The concept of Spiral Dynamics is one that I initially developoed an interest in a few years ago.

I might as well add what has happened over the past 50 years...

50 years (or so) ago...

• Pursuit of learning for its own sake.
  Systems thinking.
  Viewing life as a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies, systems, and forms
  Valuing the magnificence of existence over material possessions
  Prioritizing flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality
  Valuing knowledge and competency over rank, power, and status
  Integrating complex systems with ease

the last 30 years.....

• Experiencing the world as a single, dynamic organism with its own collective mind
  Acknowledging the Self as both distinct and a blended part of a larger, compassionate whole
  Viewing everything connected to everything else as incredibly beautiful ecological alignments
  Experiencing energy and information as permeating the Earth's total environment
  Thinking that is holistic and intuitive, with an expectation of cooperative actions
  Synthesizing science and religion into a universal spirituality

It is interesting to note that sociocentric monothesitic religions like christianity are stuck in a mindset that originated 5000 years ago. While aspects may have evolved to be more inclusive the basic premises have not.

[Confused]

Wow. Bernee. You summed it all up in one post. This is a first. I am stumped to find a flaw in your post. Of course I will have to try, but, wow.

Thanks M. The concept of Spiral Dynamics is one that I initially developoed an interest in a few years ago.

I might as well add what has happened over the past 50 years...

50 years (or so) ago...

• Pursuit of learning for its own sake.
  Systems thinking.
  Viewing life as a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies, systems, and forms
  Valuing the magnificence of existence over material possessions
  Prioritizing flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality
  Valuing knowledge and competency over rank, power, and status
  Integrating complex systems with ease

the last 30 years.....

• Experiencing the world as a single, dynamic organism with its own collective mind
  Acknowledging the Self as both distinct and a blended part of a larger, compassionate whole
  Viewing everything connected to everything else as incredibly beautiful ecological alignments
  Experiencing energy and information as permeating the Earth's total environment
  Thinking that is holistic and intuitive, with an expectation of cooperative actions
  Synthesizing science and religion into a universal spirituality

It is interesting to note that sociocentric monothesitic religions like christianity are stuck in a mindset that originated 5000 years ago. While aspects may have evolved to be more inclusive the basic premises have not.

I am going to have to look up more about this theory of spiral dynamics. Sounds interesting. Thanks.

[QED]

I'm surprised that there's been no mention so far here of Evolutionary Psychology. Nature and nurture would be inextricably linked in any phenotype expressing a nervous system primed from birth with a psychological inheritance.

Richard Dawkins (in The God Delusion - which I've somewhat grudgingly picked up as I don't particularly like his tone) and others have suggested that Religion is a by-product of some other evolved imperative. He explains how the apparently suicidal tendency of Moths to spiral into candle flames (an apparent puzzle if Darwinian selection is the cause) is better understood as a by-product of higher order selection effects by way of an evolved vision system allowing the Moth to navigate by the sun and moon. One suggestion is that children are predisposed to accept instruction from elders in a world where there is much important stuff for a human to learn. With only natural selection ultimately able to separate superstition from the real facts about the world culture would inevitably pick up a certain amount of "junk" along the way.

[QED]

I'm surprised that there's been no mention so far here of Evolutionary Psychology. Nature and nurture would be inextricably linked in any phenotype expressing a nervous system primed from birth with a psychological inheritance.

Richard Dawkins (in The God Delusion - which I've somewhat grudgingly picked up as I don't particularly like his tone) and others (e.g Steven Pinker) have suggested that Religion is a by-product of some other evolved imperative. He explains how the apparently suicidal tendency of Moths to spiral into candle flames (an apparent puzzle if Darwinian selection is the cause) is better understood as a by-product of higher order selection effects by way of an evolved vision system allowing the Moth to navigate by the sun and moon. One suggestion is that children are predisposed to accept instruction from elders in a world where there is much important stuff for a human to learn. With only natural selection ultimately able to separate superstition from the real facts about the world culture would inevitably pick up a certain amount of "junk" along the way.

[ST88]

1) How much of modern society (culture, politics,economics, etc) can be explained by our evolutionary past (evolutionary economics etc) as opposed to our religious past?

2) How much of modern behavior is explained by evolutionary history (nature vs nurture) as opposed to religious history?

Since, as QED so deftly points out, religion is a by-product of evolutionary psychological development, the correct answer is that the two are inextricably linked. You can't pick out the religious motive and say that it isn't an evolution-driven motive because evolution favored hominids that treated the world as if there were more to it than what could be perceived.

However, an interesting question might be what the difference is between the evolution-driven need for spirituality and the religions that popped up because of it?