All the words and teachings of Jesus?

[Revelations won]

Does the Bible contain all the teachings and words of Jesus Christ ?

Does the Bible give indication or evidence that there are more of his teachings that we do not currently have?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #70]

If Jesus gave you a false answer and the true answer to the same question, did he give you a false answer first and then the true answer or did he give you the true answer first and then a false answer?

Let's substitute the word 'uncertainty' for the word 'false' in your quote.

Why? In post #54 you said

Titus 1:2, no doubt, is wrong about God in saying, 'which God, who cannot lie,' and I remain firm in my take about Titus 1:2 that it's telling a lie about God.

If you believe in a god who can lie, why not call his lies false?

Since all prophecies of the Lord are anchored to certain conditions for their fulfillment, either of the two may happen, depending on which condition comes first; the world may end if its conditions ABC come first before conditions DEF, for the world will not end, or vice versa. This means that no one knows what will happen to each of us and to the world we live in right now, except the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then prophecy is meaningless, because anyone can utter open-ended prophecies.


"For God is not the author of confusion"

Nice input! Could you tell me who the author of confusion is, if you may? Where does confusion emanate from, btw?

For you it would have to be the god you believe in since you assert that he's behind everything.

Interestingly enough, your description of him makes him sound a lot like a deity such as Raven and Coyote, the ancient trickster god who is also the creator of the world.


It would be ironic if 1 Corinthians 14:33 were "telling a lie about God", wouldn't it?

On what basis do you perceive it ironic? Paul's opinion is not the Lord's opinion, don't you think so? The Lord taught us that the bible contains many errors and accounts not included in what He allowed to be written.

What is he in control of if he's not even in control of what goes into the Bible?


If Jesus is going to present himself directly to one friend, why wouldn't he present himself directly to both?

The apostles would have no job if the Lord presented Himself to all, directly as you premised. The same thing goes for us.

And the same thing goes for all the prophets if the fulfillment of prophecy is a toss-up.


"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."(John 20:31)

How will you believe the Lord Jesus Christ? What to you is the Lord Jesus Christ? How do you think you will be saved by this verse today?

Are you suggesting that this verse is another of those "errors"?

The purpose of the Christian Bible is to testify to us that the Lord Jesus Christ truly exists so that we may come to Him for our salvation and eternal life. The problem with the people is that they do not want to come to the Lord Jesus in the right way.

You mean the "right way" as defined by you? How do you conclude that all of your fellow Christians have it wrong and that only you can be right?


If he sees the right intention in your heart, why wouldn't he just give you an unambiguous response to begin with?

Not all of the Lord Jesus Christ's response is ambiguous; ambiguity only enters when God places trials in our path for us to overcome with wholehearted trust in the Lord

Is there a way to know when you're being tried and when you aren't?

The Lord rigorously trained and tutored us for many months before He declared us His followers and rewarded us with the salvation and eternal life of our souls, which we must maintain until the end, unto eternity, so that we may be with Him in eternity. This 'wracking your brain' perception does not exist in the world of the Christians due to the said training and tutorials that the Lord did to His sons, friends, and families. This is the reason why I'm telling you we're not on the same boat with the word Christian or Christianity and their way of life.

Are you on the same boat with any of your fellow Christians anywhere? I don't believe I've ever met a Christian who believed that Titus 1:2 is "telling a lie about God", so yours seems to be an awfully small boat.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #1]

The easy answer is no.

We don't know what we don't know.

It's possible that some of the teachings were unrecorded.
We don't know.

It's possible that the teachings of Jesus were primarily orally transmitted.
We don't know.

It's possible that the gospels weren't meant to be biographical records of his teachings, they might have been written for other spiritual purposes.
We don't know.

It's possible that there was a dearth of physical media, such as papyrus scrolls who were limited in size.
We don't know.

It's possible that scribes weren't always available to be able to write all the teachings.
We don't know.

It's possible that none of Jesus' teachings were eye witness accounts.
We don't know.

It's even possible that Jesus never really offered any teachings.
We don't know.

There might be other possible reasons, but I really don't know.

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #71]

Why? In post #54 you said

What?

If you believe in a god who can lie, why not call his lies false?

Lies when God uses them in giving trials can easily be ignored as false. By the way, how would you determine truth from lies if you heard and learned nothing yet from God, who is the only one who can teach us the difference between truth and lies? I will not risk the destiny of my soul for this simple ambiguity between lies and truth vis-à-vis God's way of purifying the hearts of His sons and families. Eternal life and salvation are priceless.

Then prophecy is meaningless, because anyone can utter open-ended prophecies.

It all boils down to the simple truth that no one knows the future.

For you it would have to be the god you believe in since you assert that he's behind everything.

Isn't He behind everything? Isn't He the Creator of evil?

Interestingly enough, your description of him makes him sound a lot like a deity such as Raven and Coyote, the ancient trickster god who is also the creator of the world.

Where do you think the story or idea of Raven and Coyote emanated from? Don't be surprised if one day Raven and Coyote suddenly float up alive and are cheered by the native Indians, or Godzilla wreaking havoc in downtown New York. All these stories and ideas, no doubt, emanate from God alone.

What is he in control of if he's not even in control of what goes into the Bible?

God is in control of everything, including free will, which everybody is entitled to until the end, and even unto eternity. The earth is the training and testing ground of God for all to attain salvation and eternal life, which is priceless, and the essential thing that you don't see Christians would not risk losing in place of contradiction and ambiguity that others accuse God of in His teachings and declarations to mankind.

And the same thing goes for all the prophets if the fulfillment of prophecy is a toss-up.

The prophets know what stand to take in case the fulfillment of prophecy is a toss-up.

Are you suggesting that this verse is another of those "errors"?

The Lord declared salvation here in another angle, which is not that easy to understand. Try it, will you?

You mean the "right way" as defined by you?

I'm not God to define the term 'right way.'

Thus saith the Lord:

Unless you let go of the old, what you've learned on your own will not bring you the wisdom that comes from your Lord.

How do you conclude that all of your fellow Christians have it wrong and that only you can be right?

I'm not claiming such a thing about myself; you're the one who said that to me right now.

Is there a way to know when you're being tried and when you aren't?

Not until the trials have passed by.
.

Are you on the same boat with any of your fellow Christians anywhere?

For those who are Christians, per se, I say YES.

I don't believe I've ever met a Christian who believed that Titus 1:2 is "telling a lie about God", so yours seems to be an awfully small boat.

I agree with you. Christians are not that easy to meet and find. What boat would come to your mind when the Lord told you that you can count on your fingers the total number of His followers?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #73]

Why? In post #54 you said

What?

Did you skip over that part?


If you believe in a god who can lie, why not call his lies false?

Lies when God uses them in giving trials can easily be ignored as false.

But first you would have to know the false from the true.

By the way, how would you determine truth from lies if you heard and learned nothing yet from God, who is the only one who can teach us the difference between truth and lies?

I rely on observation and critical thinking.

I will not risk the destiny of my soul for this simple ambiguity between lies and truth vis-à-vis God's way of purifying the hearts of His sons and families.

Meaning that you're conditioned to be too fearful to weigh evidence?


Then prophecy is meaningless, because anyone can utter open-ended prophecies.

It all boils down to the simple truth that no one knows the future.

Not even God?

Isn't He behind everything? Isn't He the Creator of evil?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

According to Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh does create evil, which leaves no place for the "Satan" of Christian theology.

Where do you think the story or idea of Raven and Coyote emanated from?

Not from Christianity.

Where do you think the idea of the dying-and-rising god is from? Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz.....there was a list of them before Jesus was born.

The earth is the training and testing ground of God for all to attain salvation and eternal life, which is priceless, and the essential thing that you don't see Christians would not risk losing in place of contradiction and ambiguity that others accuse God of in His teachings and declarations to mankind.

But you're the one saying that God uses contradiction and ambiguity. Is the whole purpose of this life just to train yourself to rationalize away contradictions and ambiguities?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
---Galileo

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
---Thomas Jefferson


And the same thing goes for all the prophets if the fulfillment of prophecy is a toss-up.

The prophets know what stand to take in case the fulfillment of prophecy is a toss-up.

What stand is that? To sing "Que Sera, Sera"?

I will now prove to you that I'm a prophet.

Exactly one calendar month from today, a small airplane will be forced to make an emergency landing on Interstate 10 between Blythe, California and Quartzsite, Arizona

......or it won't.

Here I have prophesied that in a specific place at a specific time, a specific thing either will happen or will not happen, and you cannot deny the reliability of my prophecy because it meets your criteria for a prophecy.


Are you suggesting that this verse is another of those "errors"?

The Lord declared salvation here in another angle, which is not that easy to understand. Try it, will you?

I've tried plenty, and plenty of what I've tried I've found lacking.

Thus saith the Lord:

That's something prophets say. Are you claiming to be a prophet?


I don't believe I've ever met a Christian who believed that Titus 1:2 is "telling a lie about God", so yours seems to be an awfully small boat.

I agree with you. Christians are not that easy to meet and find. What boat would come to your mind when the Lord told you that you can count on your fingers the total number of His followers?

Again, are you claiming to be a prophet?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #74]

But first you would have to know the false from the true.

Seek the guidance and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ, who Himself alone is the one who can teach us the truth and the lies in this world without fail.

I rely on observation and critical thinking.

That would be men's wisdom, no doubt.

Meaning that you're conditioned to be too fearful to weigh evidence?

Not exactly a blind move; a careful assessment is involved, but the weight always leans toward the salvation and eternal life that the Lord has rewarded us with.

Not even God?

God, who is omniscient, is the only exception to the rule.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

According to Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh does create evil, which leaves no place for the "Satan" of Christian theology.

Bingo! But many people keep on animating Satan and his devils as the sources of evil, most of the time; hence, God gave them over to their malicious minds.

Not from Christianity.

Nice shot! It's only from the Living God alone.

Where do you think the idea of the dying-and-rising god is from? Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz.....there was a list of them before Jesus was born.

Those ideas, and all, come and emanate only from the Almighty God, whose name is Jesus.

But you're the one saying that God uses contradiction and ambiguity.

Yes, I remain firm with my stand.

Is the whole purpose of this life just to train yourself to rationalize away contradictions and ambiguities?

No, not for the whole, but for times the Lord wants to strengthen and purify the faith of His sons and families.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."---Galileo

Neither does God; hence, use them to maintain the salvation and eternal life of our souls, which is priceless.

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson

God's ways are not arbitrary; free will is always at the top of everything God commands us to put into practice, in which the fear of the Lord, as a fruit of solid faith in Him [not of blindfolded fear], is essential in maintaining salvation and eternal life on the part of the followers of God.

What stand is that? To sing "Que Sera, Sera"?

Why not, instead of murmuring against God, which will risk losing his salvation and eternal life? The Lord trained all Christians rigorously to surpass this kind of test; they can easily let this one go without any hard feelings toward the Lord.

I will now prove to you that I'm a prophet.

Exactly one calendar month from today, a small airplane will be forced to make an emergency landing on Interstate 10 between Blythe, California and Quartzsite, Arizona

......or it won't.

Here I have prophesied that in a specific place at a specific time, a specific thing either will happen or will not happen, and you cannot deny the reliability of my prophecy because it meets your criteria for a prophecy.

Did God command you to prophecy, and for what purpose did He command you to do it? Or let's take a ride to your prophecy, granting, for the sake of this argument, that God commanded you to proclaim such prophecy, and it came to pass that your prophecy was fulfilled 100 %, as foretold. What would be the spiritual benefit that our souls can gain in the fulfillment of your prophecy?

I've tried plenty, and plenty of what I've tried I've found lacking.

Lacking in what? The reality of salvation and eternal life is not in this world. How do you say you've found plenty lacking?

That's something prophets say. Are you claiming to be a prophet?

Not only prophets, but also the 'families of God,' the title that the Lord addressed us.

Again, are you claiming to be a prophet?

We belong to the families of God in the Philippines; the Lord didn't call us prophets.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #75]

I rely on observation and critical thinking.

That would be men's wisdom, no doubt.

"No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it.

"It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication — after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."
---Thomas Paine, "Age of Reason"


Meaning that you're conditioned to be too fearful to weigh evidence?

Not exactly a blind move; a careful assessment is involved, but the weight always leans toward the salvation and eternal life that the Lord has rewarded us with.

Meaning that the dogma always outweighs the evidence?


According to Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh does create evil, which leaves no place for the "Satan" of Christian theology.

Bingo! But many people keep on animating Satan and his devils as the sources of evil, most of the time; hence, God gave them over to their malicious minds.

No place for Satan means no place for him to exist, at least not in the Christian sense.

Nevertheless, how are Christians supposed to avoid "animating Satan and his devils as the sources of evil" when they're never told not to? And how are their minds "malicious" under those circumstances? There seems to be a double standard here. You concede that Yahweh creates evil, but you don't want to hold him responsible for the evil he creates.

And if the Bible contains lies about God, does it contain lies about Satan as well?


Where do you think the idea of the dying-and-rising god is from? Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz.....there was a list of them before Jesus was born.

Those ideas, and all, come and emanate only from the Almighty God, whose name is Jesus.

A god who shares his glory with no one (Isaiah 42:8)? Is that another "error"?


"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson

God's ways are not arbitrary; free will is always at the top of everything God commands us to put into practice, in which the fear of the Lord, as a fruit of solid faith in Him [not of blindfolded fear], is essential in maintaining salvation and eternal life on the part of the followers of God.

Isn't it a blindfolded fear if you have to put that fear above every investigation?


What stand is that? To sing "Que Sera, Sera"?

Why not, instead of murmuring against God, which will risk losing his salvation and eternal life? The Lord trained all Christians rigorously to surpass this kind of test; they can easily let this one go without any hard feelings toward the Lord.

There's that underlying fear again.

Did God command you to prophecy, and for what purpose did He command you to do it? Or let's take a ride to your prophecy, granting, for the sake of this argument, that God commanded you to proclaim such prophecy, and it came to pass that your prophecy was fulfilled 100 %, as foretold. What would be the spiritual benefit that our souls can gain in the fulfillment of your prophecy?

By "spiritual benefit", do you mean "would it support your belief?" The beauty here, besides my prophecy being 100% certain to come true since I prophesied something happening or not happening, is that I can convince myself that it was inspired by any god: Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz, Raven, Coyote.....and you can deny it, but you can't disprove it.


I've tried plenty, and plenty of what I've tried I've found lacking.

Lacking in what? The reality of salvation and eternal life is not in this world. How do you say you've found plenty lacking?

Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Mithra, Raven, Coyote....how do you find them lacking?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #76]

"No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it."It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication — after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."
---Thomas Paine, "Age of Reason"

Why do you have to weigh the revelation of the Lord as revelation only to a certain person to whom the Lord uttered His words, and hearsay to all others who received it from the recipient/s of the said revelation [from the Lord]? Don't you know that the Lord always guides and leads those whom He sends to proclaim His words to all nations? And whoever listens and accepts the good news [from the Lord] that they bring, the Lord causes them to feel His presence by entering into their body. It comes as a gentle flow of electricity through their whole being, with the hairs on their skin standing on end. That’s the Lord’s proof: He sees the pure, sincere acceptance in their hearts. And it’s also proof for them that in that moment, they truly know the Lord is real and alive. From that day onwards, the Lord may begin to shepherd and guide them to their salvation should they maintain that sincere and pure acceptance of the Lord in their hearts.

Therefore, your assessment, as hearsay, is nothing but a useless perception in your life; how then would the Lord come into your life?

Meaning that the dogma always outweighs the evidence?

Not the dogma, per se, but the Lord Himself, that He is real and alive, and the salvation and eternal life that He rewarded us with, are the prevailing factors that make us blind [with solid trust and confidence in the Lord] when it comes to confusions and contradictions in the teachings of the Lord.

No place for Satan means no place for him to exist, at least not in the Christian sense.

Call it what you want, but Christians are well aware of what Satan and his devils are in the reality of their existence to those who believe in them [that they do exist in competition with God]. The Lord trained them to recognize their works in the world, where the Lord always cautions His sons, friends, and families to live not by what the world commands but by the Lord's alone.

Nevertheless, how are Christians supposed to avoid "animating Satan and his devils as the sources of evil" when they're never told not to?

Christians or non-Christians? Christians do not animate Satan and his devils; they knew them well, as well as their works.

And how are their minds "malicious" under those circumstances?

Non-Christians are the ones who fabricate ideas about Satan and his devils; JW is one good example of this kind of people who fabricate ideas about Satan and his devils, as you can see in other posts in this forum. The irony of it is that he never knew Satan and his devils at all, but for some biblical passages about them.

There seems to be a double standard here. You concede that Yahweh creates evil, but you don't want to hold him responsible for the evil he creates.

Why not, His ways are justified, aren't they? Even though God is the one who created evil, but He cautions us all always to refrain from doing evil things, as well as to stay away from everything evil.

And if the Bible contains lies about God, does it contain lies about Satan as well?

Satan is not higher and above God for him to be exempt from this.

A god who shares his glory with no one (Isaiah 42:8)? Is that another "error"?

Verbatim, yes. It should read, 'The God' instead of 'A god.' God shares his glory to no one. Those gods you mentioned are ideas and notions only from the malicious minds of the people.

Isn't it a blindfolded fear if you have to put that fear above every investigation?

That's only in your perception, not us; investigations do not have rooms in our hearts since the Lord has already proven Himself to us beyond a reasonable doubt, and He has rewarded us with salvation and eternal life, which we will not risk losing, come what may. We equate 'blindfolded fear' with 'solid and concrete trust and confidence' in the Lord to maintain our salvation and eternal life, the priceless value of which never finds any importance in your mind.

There's that underlying fear again.

Have explained this above.

By "spiritual benefit", do you mean "would it support yourbelief?"

Definitely NOT! Salvation and eternal life are what I mean with my phrase, 'spiritual benefit.'

The beauty here, besides my prophecy being 100% certain to come true since I prophesied something happening or not happening, is that I can convince myself that it was inspired by any god: Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz, Raven, Coyote.....and you can deny it, but you can't disprove it.

You know we just took a ride with your prophecy, and the gods you mentioned are only ideas and notions, which do not add anything to the salvation of our souls.

Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Mithra, Raven, Coyote....how do you find them lacking?

Why try on non-existent gods, which are just notions and ideas of people? Actually, the topic I responded to in this context is John 3:16, which you posted, where I told you to try it, meaning, give me your take or understanding on what "believing in Jesus' means, how are we going to put that into practice

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #77]

Why do you have to weigh the revelation of the Lord as revelation only to a certain person to whom the Lord uttered His words, and hearsay to all others who received it from the recipient/s of the said revelation [from the Lord]?

Paine explains that. If I were to tell you something and claim that it was a revelation given to me by Osiris or Zeus, would you consider it a revelation?

And whoever listens and accepts the good news [from the Lord] that they bring, the Lord causes them to feel His presence by entering into their body. It comes as a gentle flow of electricity through their whole being, with the hairs on their skin standing on end.

That's entirely subjective. Many experiences, both emotional and physical, can give us feelings which we can interpret in numerous ways. If I were to feel an experience with Osiris or Zeus, would you consider it any more than that?

Therefore, your assessment, as hearsay, is nothing but a useless perception in your life; how then would the Lord come into your life?

Sense, reason and intellect, as Galileo noted.


The beauty here, besides my prophecy being 100% certain to come true since I prophesied something happening or not happening, is that I can convince myself that it was inspired by any god: Osiris, Attis, Mithra, Tammuz, Raven, Coyote.....and you can deny it, but you can't disprove it.

You know we just took a ride with your prophecy, and the gods you mentioned are only ideas and notions, which do not add anything to the salvation of our souls.

That statement doesn't disprove any of the gods I mentioned.

Why try on non-existent gods, which are just notions and ideas of people? Actually, the topic I responded to in this context is John 3:16, which you posted, where I told you to try it, meaning, give me your take or understanding on what "believing in Jesus' means, how are we going to put that into practice

Believing in Jesus usually entails believing what the Christian Bible says about him, but you dismiss the Bible as riddled with error. That would typically make it hard to hang onto Jesus, but you replace the falsifiable Bible with your personal feelings which are unfalsifiable. So now you can assume validity for your inner experiences and not have to be troubled by the Bible's discrepancies.

The down side is that it makes you think very negatively of those with other beliefs. Does everyone deserve to be vilified just because their convictions differ from yours?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #78]

Paine explains that.

It's only his opinion and he is not God.

If I were to tell you something and claim that it was a revelation given to me by Osiris or Zeus, would you consider it a revelation?

I can't conclude, not unless you give me the full details of that revelation.

That's entirely subjective. Many experiences, both emotional and physical, can give us feelings which we can interpret in numerous ways. If I were to feel an experience with Osiris or Zeus, would you consider it any more than that? Sense, reason and intellect, as Galileo noted.

This is a true-to-life experience, not a hypothetical theory like yours. No one can read what our hearts dictate but God alone. And most of all, the Lord Jesus will manifest Himself to those believers afterwards, a phenomenon that no one can imitate.

That statement doesn't disprove any of the gods I mentioned.

I don't have to disprove them, since the Lord Jesus has proven to us that He alone is the Almighty God, and that no other gods exist but Him. The burden is on your side to prove them to be true, not on me.

Believing in Jesus usually entails believing what the Christian Bible says about him,

That makes the bible Jesus, in the first place; no doubt, this is bibliolatry at work. Jesus is not the bible, per se, but He is the Almighty God, alive and real; hence, believing in Jesus is believing everything we hear from His mouth, though we do not see Him yet, as simple as that.

but you dismiss the Bible as riddled with error.

We learned that notion from the Lord Jesus, not from ourselves.

That would typically make it hard to hang onto Jesus,

For you, but not for us, who do not treat the bible as if it were Jesus.

but you replace the falsifiable Bible with your personal feelings which are unfalsifiable.

I replace the bible with the real and forever living Christ Jesus, whose manifestations to believers can be seen by others in their exact instance of commitment to Him.

So now you can assume validity for your inner experiences and not have to be troubled by the Bible's discrepancies.

I told you that the Lord's manifestations in this regard can be seen by those whose hearts are pure, as seen by the Lord; hence, the bible discrepancies you treasure have nothing to do with the Lord's decision to manifest Himself visually to them.

The down side is that it makes you think very negatively of those with other beliefs.

The one whom we believe is the truth and everything, and no other can match Him; hence, there's no compromise with others when it comes to the right faith in God, who is the only one and true God, from eternity to eternity.

Does everyone deserve to be vilified just because their convictions differ from yours?

Let the Lord Jesus be the one to make the verification in your favor if you will entrust yourself to Him unconditionally. Why then bother yourself with things that the Lord can do for you without fail?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #79]

If I were to tell you something and claim that it was a revelation given to me by Osiris or Zeus, would you consider it a revelation?

I can't conclude, not unless you give me the full details of that revelation.

Then depending on the details, you might consider something a revelation by Osiris or Zeus?

This is a true-to-life experience, not a hypothetical theory like yours. No one can read what our hearts dictate but God alone. And most of all, the Lord Jesus will manifest Himself to those believers afterwards, a phenomenon that no one can imitate.

Do you know how many members of various churches have related experiences of feeling God's presence?


That statement doesn't disprove any of the gods I mentioned.

I don't have to disprove them, since the Lord Jesus has proven to us that He alone is the Almighty God, and that no other gods exist but Him. The burden is on your side to prove them to be true, not on me.

You say that Jesus has proven himself to you, so the burden would be on you to prove him to anyone he hasn't proven himself to.


Believing in Jesus usually entails believing what the Christian Bible says about him,

That makes the bible Jesus, in the first place; no doubt, this is bibliolatry at work. Jesus is not the bible, per se, but He is the Almighty God, alive and real; hence, believing in Jesus is believing everything we hear from His mouth, though we do not see Him yet, as simple as that.

You assert that people can believe what you say about Jesus. Does that make you Jesus? If it doesn't, then how does it make the Bible Jesus?

You're going to say that you don't claim to be Jesus, but the Bible doesn't claim to be Jesus either.