Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[TRANSPONDER]

No, that came later. I think what led me to God was my discovery of the Fibonacci sequence, although I did not know anything about it at the time. You could say that I discovered God in a blade of grass. I was atheistic when 17-18 but when resting from mowing the lawn I sat down and rested with my back leaning against a tree and idly picked a blade of grass. In its order and symmetry I saw design and purpose. Then I saw it almost everywhere I looked! Over the next few years I went through a lot of stages from Deism through Roman Catholicism, and did examine many different religions including Islam. I found that Roman Catholicism was the absolute closest to my beliefs (although I do wonder about a few things taught there as well).

I wish you the fairest winds in your journey towards Him.

To the bold. Do you feel that is what most other religious people do as well? They have beliefs or feelings and then find an available religion that best matches their desires?

Unfortunately there are many who simply believe what they are told to believe. This is a problem not only with some Christian Churches, but Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and atheism. And often what they were told to believe may not have been the actual teaching of the particular Church. I approached it by examining the teaching of the particular Church and thinking about whether or not they agreed with logic.

Surely you take note that having beliefs or feelings and then finding an available religion that best matches these beliefs/feelings is not a valid way to arrive at truth claims?

You seem to have seen order and symmetry in a blade of grass and then searched until you found that the Roman Catholic beliefs best match your beliefs.

Pretty meaningless IMO when ultimetly it was your beliefs and feelings driving you to the desired conclusion you found.
Design and symmetry don't point to any god concept any more then how pointing to our chaotic universe disproves any god.

Noting that chaotic systems are everywhere and dominate the universe, therefore there are no gods would be illogical. Just like how pointing to something with symmetry and thinking there must be a god or gods would be illogical.

I'm open to their being gods, but would need more than some symmetry since I know of the chaos.

Be well.

The biggest Gap for God is the one from Id, the watchmakwer and First cause to Jesus saves. That's a leap and a half of faith.

[kjw47]

If there’s a particular logical argument for God that you find compelling, why not post that?

That is like asking to show you the center of the moon.

Is it though? You’ve supplied an unfortunate (for you) analogy, since there’s enough indirect scientific evidence to state what the inside of the moon looks like with reasonable confidence. See here, for example.

So, do you have a compelling logical argument, or are you sticking with ‘faith’?

The righteous live by faith

So, belief without evidence, got it. And how did you come to that view? Did you grow up going to church and Sunday School as a small child, or did you have some kind of religious ’awakening’ as an adult?

there is only one other kind to Gods view beside the righteous= the wicked.

Deuteronomy 28 seems not to apply to me, so I guess I can’t be that bad…

Mortals views are different from Gods views. In Noahs day= 99.9% deemed wicked by Gods view, yet they loved their families and friends. The new covenant of love Jesus spoke of, gives that same love to ones enemies as well. Few manage that.

[kjw47]

I shared reality of what Gods word teaches-The righteous live by faith, the wicked demand proof. We all by ourselves pick the shoes we wear.

You shared religious propaganda. The deluded live by faith while the rational and realistic demand more. Some of us pick our own shoes while others have their shoes chosen for them.

God will show you.

God will show us what, and when and how do you know this? You'll have to give a decent stab of an answer or validate every immoderate remark Joey has poste about you

God will show the world who are his and who aren't.

sorry, which God is this, exactly? The god of the Muslims? The god of the Hindus perhaps? If not how do you prove not?

cue - Bible.

God will show the world who are his and who aren't.

I lost focus on this debate thread a few weeks ago, but saw it was still going and decided to have another look.

As far as I can tell, there’s been no recent effort made by you to ‘demonstrate the existence of the Christian God’. You clearly believe it exists, but comments like the one quoted above are simply assuming facts not in evidence. If there’s no God in the first place, he won’t be showing anyone anything.

If there’s a particular logical argument for God that you find compelling, why not post that?

That is like asking to show you the center of the moon. The righteous live by faith, there is only one other kind to Gods view beside the righteous= the wicked.

Ah, well 'The Bible might have been a discussion but 'By Faith' is no argument. Or actually it is. I've asked this before - why is 'Righteous' defined by Faith? We are constantly peddled this Line that good and decent people go to heaven and the evil go to Hell, but it is then the question of Righteousness seeming to depend on Believing Right. Faith is no parameter for determining who is going to be saved, let alone not being any parameter for argument. It is simply a mental subtefugue for denial of reason and evidence and demonising anyone who is different. There is nothing virtuous or valid about 'Faith'.

cue 'atheists have faith in evolution'.

The true living God=YHWH(Jehovah) set Life or death before all, not heaven or hell-Deuteronomy 30:19

[kjw47]

God will show the world who are his and who aren't.

I lost focus on this debate thread a few weeks ago, but saw it was still going and decided to have another look.

As far as I can tell, there’s been no recent effort made by you to ‘demonstrate the existence of the Christian God’. You clearly believe it exists, but comments like the one quoted above are simply assuming facts not in evidence. If there’s no God in the first place, he won’t be showing anyone anything.

If there’s a particular logical argument for God that you find compelling, why not post that?

That is like asking to show you the center of the moon. The righteous live by faith, there is only one other kind to Gods view beside the righteous= the wicked.

Here's an example of flawed argument that is Sophistry rather than sound reasoning. We know the moon exists. By Reason, we can be sure it has a centre. Once we couldn't guess what it might be, but now science gives us a pretty good guess.

So is that a valid analogy for a god that nobody can see? Of course not. What we see are human beans with a lot of other gods that you
ignore; didn't even read their Holy Books. Do you see the problem with operating on 'Faith'?

There is one true God=YHWH(Jehovah), satan is posing as all the other gods.

[TRANSPONDER]

God will show the world who are his and who aren't.

I lost focus on this debate thread a few weeks ago, but saw it was still going and decided to have another look.

As far as I can tell, there’s been no recent effort made by you to ‘demonstrate the existence of the Christian God’. You clearly believe it exists, but comments like the one quoted above are simply assuming facts not in evidence. If there’s no God in the first place, he won’t be showing anyone anything.

If there’s a particular logical argument for God that you find compelling, why not post that?

That is like asking to show you the center of the moon. The righteous live by faith, there is only one other kind to Gods view beside the righteous= the wicked.

Here's an example of flawed argument that is Sophistry rather than sound reasoning. We know the moon exists. By Reason, we can be sure it has a centre. Once we couldn't guess what it might be, but now science gives us a pretty good guess.

So is that a valid analogy for a god that nobody can see? Of course not. What we see are human beans with a lot of other gods that you
ignore; didn't even read their Holy Books. Do you see the problem with operating on 'Faith'?

There is one true God=YHWH(Jehovah), satan is posing as all the other gods.

I remind you of the topic. What evidence have you that it is as you say? I get it that you reckon there is only one God, The god of the Hebrews rebranded as god of the Christians, and all the others are false gods, or as you blithely claim, Satan posing as all of them. Really, What is God doing to let his get away with it? Oh yes, God will step in and sort it all out...sometime...

But as I say, how do you show that to be anything but a lot of Faith - claims without any real support?

cue - Faith.

[kjw47]

God will show the world who are his and who aren't.

I lost focus on this debate thread a few weeks ago, but saw it was still going and decided to have another look.

As far as I can tell, there’s been no recent effort made by you to ‘demonstrate the existence of the Christian God’. You clearly believe it exists, but comments like the one quoted above are simply assuming facts not in evidence. If there’s no God in the first place, he won’t be showing anyone anything.

If there’s a particular logical argument for God that you find compelling, why not post that?

That is like asking to show you the center of the moon. The righteous live by faith, there is only one other kind to Gods view beside the righteous= the wicked.

Here's an example of flawed argument that is Sophistry rather than sound reasoning. We know the moon exists. By Reason, we can be sure it has a centre. Once we couldn't guess what it might be, but now science gives us a pretty good guess.

So is that a valid analogy for a god that nobody can see? Of course not. What we see are human beans with a lot of other gods that you
ignore; didn't even read their Holy Books. Do you see the problem with operating on 'Faith'?

There is one true God=YHWH(Jehovah), satan is posing as all the other gods.

I remind you of the topic. What evidence have you that it is as you say? I get it that you reckon there is only one God, The god of the Hebrews rebranded as god of the Christians, and all the others are false gods, or as you blithely claim, Satan posing as all of them. Really, What is God doing to let his get away with it? Oh yes, God will step in and sort it all out...sometime...

But as I say, how do you show that to be anything but a lot of Faith - claims without any real support?

cue - Faith.

This is how it works--James 4:8--Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.

[brunumb]

This is how it works--James 4:8--Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.

If it gives you comfort, go for it, even if it isn't true. Some of us were able to let go of that security blanket long ago.

[kjw47]

This is how it works--James 4:8--Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.

If it gives you comfort, go for it, even if it isn't true. Some of us were able to let go of that security blanket long ago.

That is sad for you, the bible is clear, these are the end of the last days.

[brunumb]

This is how it works--James 4:8--Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.

If it gives you comfort, go for it, even if it isn't true. Some of us were able to let go of that security blanket long ago.

That is sad for you, the bible is clear, these are the end of the last days.

The Great Pumpkin has informed me otherwise. I believe him as he is after all our One True Gourd.

The Bible is just religious propaganda and should not be taken as anything more than that.

[kjw47]

This is how it works--James 4:8--Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.

If it gives you comfort, go for it, even if it isn't true. Some of us were able to let go of that security blanket long ago.

That is sad for you, the bible is clear, these are the end of the last days.

The Great Pumpkin has informed me otherwise. I believe him as he is after all our One True Gourd.

The Bible is just religious propaganda and should not be taken as anything more than that.

Sounds about right from your reasoning perspective.