All the words and teachings of Jesus?

[Revelations won]

Does the Bible contain all the teachings and words of Jesus Christ ?

Does the Bible give indication or evidence that there are more of his teachings that we do not currently have?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #40]

Meaning that you can't give the question a Yes or No answer?

Yes, since it's a hypothetical question.

A question can't be given a Yes or No answer just because it's hypothetical?


It would have to be tightly controlled, but it would be an interesting experiment to conduct.

No way, if the intention were to experiment, that would be putting the Lord to a test, which is the gravest sin against God.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God"
(1 John 4:1)

Do you believe that it was wrong of Lucy Harris to hide pages from the Book of Mormon to see if Joseph Smith could reproduce them?


So you can know the nature of the Hindu's experience, but you can't prove that you know it?

I can tell whether it's genuine or not based on a Hindu's account of his personal experience.

Based on his account of his personal experience.....or based on your preconceived notion of his personal experience?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #41]

A question can't be given a Yes or No answer just because it's hypothetical?

It can be given a Yes or No answer, why not, but since we're talking about God's actions in the past, giving a Yes or No answer would give us nothing for the benefit of our souls.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God"
(1 John 4:1)

John was talking here to his brethren in Christ, to whom the teachings of the Lord were shared and taught, as Christ instructed them to do. This verse does not apply to bible readers alone. And on top of this, putting to the test any individual who claims to have spoken to God is not a sin against God, unlike putting God himself to the test, like your premise of experimenting, which is the gravest sin against God.

Do you believe that it was wrong of Lucy Harris to hide pages from the Book of Mormon to see if Joseph Smith could reproduce them?

I believe she's not wrong, since Joseph Smith is a man like us. He is not God. Putting him to the test is not a sin against God.

Based on his account of his personal experience.....or based on your preconceived notion of his personal experience?

My meterstick in determining if his personal experience is genuine is exactly what we've heard and learned from the Lord.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #42]

A question can't be given a Yes or No answer just because it's hypothetical?

It can be given a Yes or No answer, why not, but since we're talking about God's actions in the past, giving a Yes or No answer would give us nothing for the benefit of our souls.

It might give us something of benefit concerning what actually happened in the past, mightn't it?


Do you believe that it was wrong of Lucy Harris to hide pages from the Book of Mormon to see if Joseph Smith could reproduce them?

I believe she's not wrong, since Joseph Smith is a man like us. He is not God. Putting him to the test is not a sin against God.

Two people independently asking for lists of names would be men like us. How can you know if the answers they get are genuine without testing the answers against each other?

My meterstick in determining if his personal experience is genuine is exactly what we've heard and learned from the Lord.

And you believe that has to be uniquely and exclusively genuine?

If you and someone else asked the same question of God and the answers you each respectively believed you got were different, why would the other person have to be the one who was mistaken? Couldn't you just as easily be mistaken as the other person could?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #43]

It might give us something of benefit concerning what actually happened in the past, mightn't it?

What benefit would it be if it might give us something of benefit concerning what actually happened in the past? However, whatever benefit it would be, we both have it now that you know God commanded 17 people to write scriptures.

Two people independently asking for lists of names would be men like us. How can you know if the answers they get are genuine without testing the answers against each other?

If God is the direct addressee of the queries, the act will be putting God to the test. Knowing that God is the one who gave each questor the answer, why would they have to determine if the answer given to each of them is genuine or not? That's not the way how it goes to the Christians way of living with the Lord Jesus, where absolute trust and confidence in Him are essential to maintain salvation.

And you believe that has to be uniquely and exclusively genuine?

Not exactly that way, but the Lord Himself, He is the one who is uniquely and exclusively genuine Lord of all.

If you and someone else asked the same question of God and the answers you each respectively believed you got were different, why would the other person have to be the one who was mistaken?

That would only be true if I were you, but since I am not Athetotheist, your premise doesn't hold water. Trial, as I have said, would be the best way to look at it to resolve any misunderstanding/misconception.

Couldn't you just as easily be mistaken as the other person could?

It depends on the situations....

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #44]

What benefit would it be if it might give us something of benefit concerning what actually happened in the past? However, whatever benefit it would be, we both have it now that you know God commanded 17 people to write scriptures.

How do I "know" that? By your saying so? If the Bible isn't infallible because it isn't God, how are you infallible?

Knowing that God is the one who gave each questor the answer, why would they have to determine if the answer given to each of them is genuine or not?

In order to find out if the answers match. If they don't, it means that at least one answer isn't genuine.

If two individuals claimed to be true prophets, would you just assume that they were both true prophets even if their prophecies were mutually incompatible?


If you and someone else asked the same question of God and the answers you each respectively believed you got were different, why would the other person have to be the one who was mistaken?

That would only be true if I were you, but since I am not Athetotheist, your premise doesn't hold water.

Why would it have to be me? Why couldn't it be another individual?

Trial, as I have said, would be the best way to look at it to resolve any misunderstanding/misconception.

Could it be that you simply find "trial" a more comfortable conclusion than one [or possibly both] of the questioners being wrong?


Couldn't you just as easily be mistaken as the other person could?

It depends on the situations....

How does it depend on the situation?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #45]

How do I "know" that?

I have shared it with you; it's up to you to take it or ignore it. Anyway, there's no big deal with that information

By your saying so?

Since we learned that from the Lord, I have to share that with others.

If the Bible isn't infallible because it isn't God, how are you infallible?

I don't claim to be infallible since I am not God, but I need not be infallible to share that information with all.

In order to find out if the answers match.

I told you that would only be true for non-Christians, but for Christians, that doesn't matter, since both questors knew pretty well that the Lord God was the one who gave them the answers when they asked Him. Even though they knew the Lord gave them different answers for the same question that they had asked Him, that would not be a cause of distrust in the Lord.

If they don't, it means that at least one answer isn't genuine.

Not necessarily, it depends on the question they asked.

If two individuals claimed to be true prophets, would you just assume that they were both true prophets even if their prophecies were mutually incompatible?

It depends on what news they brought to the world. Christians never claim something for themselves in their favor, which, in this case, is being a true prophet. Christians are tasked with telling the whole world to come to the Lord for their salvation and eternal life, not to tell them that they were messengers of God, per se. If they testify for and on behalf of themselves, they're not messengers of God.

Why would it have to be me?

It would have to be you because of your premise, which does not exist in my belief.

Why couldn't it be another individual?

It could also be based on the same criteria; you're not all alone with that premise.

Could it be that you simply find "trial" a more comfortable conclusion than one [or possibly both] of the questioners being wrong?

No, it's not like that; I said trials because that's what we learned and heard from the Lord during His tutorial meetings with us on a random occasion, which is one of the ways the Lord uses in purifying the hearts of His sheep.

How does it depend on the situation?

It all depends on the questions of the two individuals and the answer that the Lord gave them.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #46]

I told you that would only be true for non-Christians, but for Christians, that doesn't matter, since both questors knew pretty well that the Lord God was the one who gave them the answers when they asked Him.

You mean the two questioners already presumed that they were getting genuine answers?

Even though they knew the Lord gave them different answers for the same question that they had asked Him, that would not be a cause of distrust in the Lord.

Because they would be psychologically conditioned not to question even obvious discrepancies?

If the same answer you give here were given to you about two questioners who believe in a god you don't believe in, would you find the answer satisfactory?


If they don't, it means that at least one answer isn't genuine.

Not necessarily, it depends on the question they asked.

How would the specific question have any bearing on whether or not it was answered consistently?


If two individuals claimed to be true prophets, would you just assume that they were both true prophets even if their prophecies were mutually incompatible?

It depends on what news they brought to the world.

Do you mean that it would depend on which religion they followed?

Christians are tasked with telling the whole world to come to the Lord for their salvation and eternal life, not to tell them that they were messengers of God, per se.

But you've been in this forum telling people that you get messages from God. You also said earlier:

Since we learned that from the Lord, I have to share that with others.

....which seems to mean that you're claiming to be a messenger of God.


Why would it have to be me?

It would have to be you because of your premise, which does not exist in my belief.

Does it not exist in your belief, or do you choose not to apply it to your belief?


How does it depend on the situation?

It all depends on the questions of the two individuals and the answer that the Lord gave them.

This is beating around the bush. I'm asking how it depends. Can you give an example of how it would depend?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #47]

You mean the two questioners already presumed that they were getting genuine answers?

No, it's not that way. They knew they got different answers, but they looked at that, as I have said, as the Lord's trial, which is one of the ways of strengthening their faith in God - by passing through the trials of the Lord with 100 % faith in Him, come hell or high water.

Because they would be psychologically conditioned not to question even obvious discrepancies?

Call it whatever you want, but it is for the purpose of purifying the hearts of the Christians, and for the maintenance of the salvation and eternal life that the Lord rewarded them with. What you don't see here is the salvation and eternal life in contrast with the trials of the Lord.

If the same answer you give here were given to you about two questioners who believe in a god you don't believe in, would you find the answer satisfactory?

Yes! Even if Vishnu were the one who told them the same answer I gave here, it would be a satisfactory answer for me in relation to God alone being behind everything. This is a deeper teaching from the Lord that is not easy to understand.

Do you mean that it would depend on which religion they followed?

Definitely, Yes!

But you've been in this forum telling people that you get messages from God.

I'm here to tell everybody that God wants us all to come to Him, so that He may lead and guide us to our salvation and eternal life. Forget and ignore me, so with all the rest of what I'm saying, and look at them as testimonies to God alone. I'm nothing

Since we learned that from the Lord, I have to share that with others.
....which seems to mean that you're claiming to be a messenger of God.

That's your perception, and I don't mean to testify that to myself.

Does it not exist in your belief, or do you choose not to apply it to your belief?

Either way, it's not our way.

This is beating around the bush.

Cheers and relax!

I'm asking how it depends. Can you give an example of how it would depend? How would the specific question have any bearing on whether or not it was answered consistently?

Then give your premise specific details of the question of the two individuals, and the details of the answers God gave them. Then I will cross the bridge.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #48]

They knew they got different answers, but they looked at that, as I have said, as the Lord's trial, which is one of the ways of strengthening their faith in God - by passing through the trials of the Lord with 100 % faith in Him, come hell or high water.

Do you see the problem this creates? For a god to deliberately tell a falsehood to someone sincerely seeking an answer, that god would have to be capable of deceit. How would that strengthen faith in that god?


If the same answer you give here were given to you about two questioners who believe in a god you don't believe in, would you find the answer satisfactory?

Yes! Even if Vishnu were the one who told them the same answer I gave here, it would be a satisfactory answer for me in relation to God alone being behind everything. This is a deeper teaching from the Lord that is not easy to understand.

Then couldn't it be an indication of Vishnu being behind everything? Would you be willing to accept that possibility?


Do you mean that it would depend on which religion they followed?

Definitely, Yes!

So it would have to be your religion, even if another religion were more strongly in evidence?


I'm asking how it depends. Can you give an example of how it would depend? How would the specific question have any bearing on whether or not it was answered consistently?

Then give your premise specific details of the question of the two individuals, and the details of the answers God gave them. Then I will cross the bridge.

I don't have to propose specific details, since any mutually incompatible answers to the same question will suffice. You're suggesting that you can't give an example of such incompatible answers being an exceptional case.

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #49]

Do you see the problem this creates? For a god to deliberately tell a falsehood to someone sincerely seeking an answer, that god would have to be capable of deceit.

Bear in mind that Christians' world and way of life are based solely on what they have heard and learned/will continue to hear and learn from the Lord Jesus. Christians know wholeheartedly that they must maintain their salvation by being faithfully obedient to the Lord Jesus, no matter what comes to them from the Lord. Falsehood, sometimes but not always, is one of the tools of the Lord in giving trials to His sheep to strengthen their faith in Him and to purify their heart. For Christians, trial, not deceit, is what comes to mind in issues like the one we discuss now. What you don't see here is the SALVATION and ETERNAL LIFE that they may lose should they turn their back on the Lord, just for the simple and abrupt thinking that the Lord deceived them in giving false answers to their questions.

How would that strengthen faith in that god?

Negative thinking, like deception in this issue, draws away in their mind and is replaced by positive thinking, trials set by the Lord for the latter to see how their faith is affected/shaken by such an act of the Lord. Salvation and eternal life, as they are always aware of, are guaranteed until the end and unto eternity should they maintain their faithful obedience to the Lord unconditionally, a thing that I'm sure is not on your bucket list till now.

Then couldn't it be an indication of Vishnu being behind everything?

Of course not, as if Satan were behind everything! Vishnu is not behind everything, but the Almighty God alone. Vishnu is not the Almighty God, as is Satan.

Would you be willing to accept that possibility?

No way! I told you this issue is one of the deepest teachings of the Lord. Many disciples of the Lord during His incarnation turned their backs on Him because of this teaching about Himself.

So it would have to be your religion,

No, definitely not, for I have none in reality. The Lord is the one who is to be drawn to by all, not religion, which brings people to damnation in the end.

even if another religion were more strongly in evidence?

From whose perspective is that religion, per se, more strongly in evidence? Could you mention it specifically, and let's see how evidently strong it is?

I don't have to propose specific details, since any mutually incompatible answers to the same question will suffice.

How could I respond to your question if there are no specifics? What is mutually incompatible to you may not be mutually incompatible to me.

You're suggesting that you can't give an example of such incompatible answers being an exceptional case.

Of course, I can give true-to-life, incompatible answers from the Lord Jesus, who taught us many things during His random shepherding with us in 2001 and onwards.

We asked the Lord how this world will end, and the Lord said, to wit:

The events of Judgment will be terrifying. Everything we see in the universe will be destroyed and melt like ice. All planets, including the world, will explode and collapse. Nothing will remain standing, and everything will be destroyed. All creatures that have died, whether human, animal, or any living thing, will be resurrected. Those who are alive when Judgment comes will witness the terrifying fate of all. After a few seconds of resurrection, everyone will die again, including those who were brought back to life from their graves. And everyone will die! Then, all will be judged. Those who are not saved will be cast into a sea of fire, while those who are saved will be in eternal paradise, enjoying peace with God.

Then, after some time, the Lord taught us that this world will not come to an end, but only to depreciations and deformations.

If I were you, what would come to your mind in this situation?