Original Sin

[Zzyzx]

Is the Adam and Eve story true? Unless the story is true, the concept of ‘original sin’ has no meaning, and there was no need for Jesus to 'save' humanity from 'original sin'.

From: Ebsco (dot) com
“Original sin is a Christian doctrine that teaches all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve due to their disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden. This condition affects every person, making them morally and spiritually flawed from birth, and is often seen as a barrier to a relationship with God.”

From: U.S. Catholic (dot) org
"According to Christian belief, Jesus' sacrifice is seen as a means to save humanity from original sin, which is the state of sin inherited from Adam and Eve. This salvation is believed to be available to all who have faith in Him."

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #39]

Even though nothing is impossible with God, He didn’t plan it in accordance with your presentation. He made us suffer death to prevent overpopulation on Earth.

Then you don't believe that death came into the world as a consequence of original sin.

There is nothing at all that gets my seal of approval, which is non-existent, btw. The sole purpose of those utterances, as I said, is to testify to the Almighty and draw us to come to God for our salvation and eternal life. We don’t have to treat them as if they were the Almighty Himself.

But you draw a distinction between utterances as being either testimonies of God or vain imaginings. Why can't those who hold other beliefs draw such distinctions just as validly as you can?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #39]

Even though nothing is impossible with God, He didn’t plan it in accordance with your presentation. He made us suffer death to prevent overpopulation on Earth.

Then you don't believe that death came into the world as a consequence of original sin.

No, I don’t buy that lie! In reality, the Lord warned Adam and Eve that sin would clothe them by the time they ate the forbidden fruit, contrary to ‘they shall surely die,’ as written in the bible.

There is nothing at all that gets my seal of approval, which is non-existent, btw. The sole purpose of those utterances, as I said, is to testify to the Almighty and draw us to come to God for our salvation and eternal life. We don’t have to treat them as if they were the Almighty Himself.

But you draw a distinction between utterances as being either testimonies of God or vain imaginings. Why can't those who hold other beliefs draw such distinctions just as validly as you can?

God is only one - the Almighty God. Utterances that come from the mouth of the Almighty God alone matter most, and all the rest is nothing but vain imagination.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #42]

Then you don't believe that death came into the world as a consequence of original sin.

No, I don’t buy that lie! In reality, the Lord warned Adam and Eve that sin would clothe them by the time they ate the forbidden fruit, contrary to ‘they shall surely die,’ as written in the bible.

Then you don't believe everything written in the Bible.


But you draw a distinction between utterances as being either testimonies of God or vain imaginings. Why can't those who hold other beliefs draw such distinctions just as validly as you can?

God is only one - the Almighty God. Utterances that come from the mouth of the Almighty God alone matter most, and all the rest is nothing but vain imagination.

You're still not telling me what makes your discernment better than someone else's. You indicate that you don't believe everything in the Bible, so by what means do genuine utterances come?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #42]

Then you don't believe that death came into the world as a consequence of original sin.

No, I don’t buy that lie! In reality, the Lord warned Adam and Eve that sin would clothe them by the time they ate the forbidden fruit, contrary to ‘they shall surely die,’ as written in the bible.

Then you don't believe everything written in the Bible.

Yes, I don’t believe everything written in the bible.

But you draw a distinction between utterances as being either testimonies of God or vain imaginings. Why can't those who hold other beliefs draw such distinctions just as validly as you can?

God is only one - the Almighty God. Utterances that come from the mouth of the Almighty God alone matter most, and all the rest is nothing but vain imagination.

You're still not telling me what makes your discernment better than someone else's.

I’m only using what we’ve heard and learned from Almighty God to assess and evaluate someone’s claim about God. If there is a discernment better than someone else’s, it’s not mine but God’s - the things that we’ve heard and learned from Him.

You indicate that you don't believe everything in the Bible, so by what means do genuine utterances come?

They come from audibly hearing the Almighty God, as Moses did.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #44]

I’m only using what we’ve heard and learned from Almighty God to assess and evaluate someone’s claim about God.

Then why can't others use what they've heard and learned to assess and evaluate your claims?


You indicate that you don't believe everything in the Bible, so by what means do genuine utterances come?

They come from audibly hearing the Almighty God, as Moses did.

Do you believe that Moses audibly heard God because it's written in the Bible?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #45]

I’m only using what we’ve heard and learned from Almighty God to assess and evaluate someone’s claim about God.

Then why can't others use what they've heard and learned to assess and evaluate your claims?

Anyone is free to assess and evaluate our claims based on what they heard and learned. Anyway, the revelation of the truth of all these claims will be the appalling and tragic moment of Judgment Day.

]You indicate that you don't believe everything in the Bible, so by what means do genuine utterances come?

They come from audibly hearing the Almighty God, as Moses did.

Do you believe that Moses audibly heard God because it's written in the Bible?

I believe Moses audibly heard God because God confirmed to us His conversation with him on Mt. Sinai.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #46]

Anyone is free to assess and evaluate our claims based on what they heard and learned. Anyway, the revelation of the truth of all these claims will be the appalling and tragic moment of Judgment Day.

That looks like the Appeal to Fear fallacy.

I believe Moses audibly heard God because God confirmed to us His conversation with him on Mt. Sinai.

To whom do you refer with the terms "our" and "us"?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #46]

Anyone is free to assess and evaluate our claims based on what they heard and learned. Anyway, the revelation of the truth of all these claims will be the appalling and tragic moment of Judgment Day.

That looks like the Appeal to Fear fallacy.

Call it whatever you like, but the revelation of the truth of all these claims, across all generations, will be the day of reckoning - the Judgment Day. You are not obliged or intimidated to take anything, but granted, instead, a guaranteed 100 % free will to ignore or not to ignore the Lord in this issue; how could you attribute that to the Appeal to Fear Fallacy?

I believe Moses audibly heard God because God confirmed to us His conversation with him on Mt. Sinai.

To whom do you refer with the terms "our" and "us"?

The ‘our’ and ‘us’ refer to my family, relatives, and friends who have witnessed the visitation of the Lord Jesus in our lives from 2001 up to 2014.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #48]

Call it whatever you like, but the revelation of the truth of all these claims, across all generations, will be the day of reckoning - the Judgment Day. You are not obliged or intimidated to take anything, but granted, instead, a guaranteed 100 % free will to ignore or not to ignore the Lord in this issue; how could you attribute that to the Appeal to Fear Fallacy?

"Description:  When fear, not based on evidence or reason, is being used as the primary motivator to get others to accept an idea, proposition, or conclusion.

Logical Form:
If you don’t accept X as true, something terrible will happen to you.
Therefore, X must be true."
https://share.google/Oe2YhbJAlrGzApFtl

That looks like a match to me.

The ‘our’ and ‘us’ refer to my family, relatives, and friends who have witnessed the visitation of the Lord Jesus in our lives from 2001 up to 2014.

Can you describe the nature of such visitation?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #48]

Call it whatever you like, but the revelation of the truth of all these claims, across all generations, will be the day of reckoning - the Judgment Day. You are not obliged or intimidated to take anything, but granted, instead, a guaranteed 100 % free will to ignore or not to ignore the Lord in this issue; how could you attribute that to the Appeal to Fear Fallacy?

"Description:  When fear, not based on evidence or reason, is being used as the primary motivator to get others to accept an idea, proposition, or conclusion.

Logical Form:
If you don’t accept X as true, something terrible will happen to you.
Therefore, X must be true."
https://share.google/Oe2YhbJAlrGzApFtl

That looks like a match to me.

Got you, it’s your call.

The ‘our’ and ‘us’ refer to my family, relatives, and friends who have witnessed the visitation of the Lord Jesus in our lives from 2001 up to 2014.

Can you describe the nature of such visitation?

It all started here when the angels brought to our nephew this good tidings from heaven, as follows:

March 26, 1987, a baby was born and named Marco or Makie. From childhood, Makie's eyes were open to spirits like angels and demons. As he grew up, he didn't tell anyone what he saw. Many times a day, he saw spirits. Sometimes they were with him while walking, sometimes while eating, but the light spirits of the angels didn't speak. The spirits with ugly appearances, however, said and ordered him to do things. As time passed, the number of spirits he saw increased. This went on and on, and the number kept growing. He was 7 years old when this mysterious event happened. Here's his account:

11:30 PM, I woke up feeling strange, accompanied by a cold wind that seemed to be circulating around me. Soon, I heard a loud thud, and a fire came out from the ceiling of our house and suddenly disappeared. Exactly 12:00 AM, a cold smoke entered the house with seven lights, but I didn't know they were angels. Suddenly, they spoke for the first time, saying,

"Peace, don't be afraid or troubled, for we are angels sent from heaven to reveal God's blessing to you. The next coming of the Lord God Almighty is near, and you will prepare His way in the world. Listen, you, your uncle Rosento's (Onejack) family, a woman named Marita, and your cousin Rebida's family will be revealed by God on the appointed day. Listen carefully, at first, Rebida and her family will be with you in the ministry God will establish, but because of her trust in a person, they will be removed from that ministry. However, a worker of your uncle and his family will replace Rebida's family, but not all members of the family of your uncle's worker will be part of the church you will establish, because some of them still have doubts. A man will also be with you because he will work with Marianie's nephew, Rosento's wife's relative. Before all this happens, you will have an unusual illness because that illness will come from demons. You won't be able to study for a year because of your illness. You will be taken to different hospitals, but none of the doctors who examine you will be able to explain your illness and will say you're going crazy. Even albularios (spiritual healers) won't be able to explain your illness and will say you're bewitched. You and the albulario will be played by demons, and one person will be ruined. Many will stay away from you because they think you're crazy. The demons will do many things to destroy you completely. Before we leave, there's only one question you need to answer: Do you agree to these things happening or not?"

I answered and said I agreed to that agreement. After my answer, the angels said goodbye, but before they left, they introduced themselves and said their names - Michael, Daniel, Samuel, Raniel, Ezekiel, Gristel, and Josakiel. And the angels left.[/color]