Christians: how will you know the messiah when he arrives?

[Avoice]

Christians:

How will you know who the Messiah is? How will you know who is the real one and who isn't?

Like if some guy claimed to be Jesus how will you know if he is or isn't?

[1213]

How will you know who the Messiah is? How will you know who is the real one and who isn't?

By his words.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #11]
Words? What words will you be listening for ?
What if someone else says the same thing?

[Avoice]

[Replying to tam in post #9]
But you've never heard his voice.
What are you talking about? How you going to recognize what you've never heard.
Sure I know my mother's voice. As well as actors. But I've heard their voices before.
So how are you going to recognize his voice if you've never heard it?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #11]
Words? What words will you be listening for ?
What if someone else says the same thing?

Jesus can be known from what he says in the Bible. Even if one knows what he says in the Bible, I don't think someone could impersonate Jesus, without failing to fit to what Jesus says in the Bible. That is why I think it is very important for people to know what Jesus said. Otherwise they can be misled.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #14]

Does what Jesus said even matter to you? Do you obey him?
Jesus tells you not to resist evil. So do you welcome evil?
When someone slaps you do you tell them to slap you again? Do you?
If you are sued for a certain amount did you or would you give more than you were sued for? Yes or no?
If forced to go a mile would you go two miles?
Do you give to the one who asks you, and doesnt turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you? I would like to borrow $5.00
Do you love your enemies? Really....do you feel love towards people who have done you wrong? So you dont feel upset? You feel love when you are wronged? Love?

These are some of Jesus' commandments. YOU HAVE TO KEEP THEM.
JESUS ONLY DIED FOR TRANSGRESSIONS MADE UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. NOT the new one.

Christians have made a fatal choice. You see, the laws which Christians say they don't have to keep are EASY to keep. They are doable. You gave those up. Now you HAVE to obey Jesus. And he didn't die to r you to break those. IT SAYS HE ONLY FORGIVES THE TRANSGRESSIONS THAT ARE IN THE FIRST COVENANT.
IF I were you, I'd make sure to do what Jesus told you to do. YOU THINK YOU GOT IT MADE WITH JESUS? HE COMMANDS YOU DO THINGS YOU CAN'T OR WONT DO. Do you realize the mess you are in? Should have stayed with what is behind curtain number one

[Avoice]

[Replying to Consocius in post #2]
You realize he's the Jewish Messiah don't you? Like you say Jesus wasn't what they are expecting. So why are you expecting something different?
And because the Messiah is the Jewish Messiah he has to be accepted by the Jews. Jesus isn't accepted by the Jews. How many more thousands of years do you want to wait for somebody who's not the Messiah?

:A minister was trying to convince a Jew that Jesus was the Messiah but the Jew didn't believe it. The minister said how do you know Jesus isn't the messiah? The Jews have been wrong before. The Jews thought Simon Bar Kokhba was the Messiah and he wasn't.
The Jew said to the minister: How do you know Bar Kohkba wasn't the Messiah?
The minister said Because Bar Kohkba died!
The Jew looked at the minister and kept silent.
After a few seconds had past the expression on the ministers face changed. He realized what he said

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #9]
But you've never heard his voice.
What are you talking about? How you going to recognize what you've never heard.
Sure I know my mother's voice. As well as actors. But I've heard their voices before.
So how are you going to recognize his voice if you've never heard it?

But I have heard His voice. He said His sheep would hear His voice. Not just the people who were present 2000 years ago, but the ones He had yet to call.


Peace again

[Avoice]

[Replying to tam in post #17]

So if some guy says "my sheep hear my voice" that means he is the Messiah?
Anyone can say that.

When someone says those words that will impress you?

I've read what is supposedly quoted to have said.
He said:
Love your enemies. Do you? Do you love your enemies? When someone does you wrong or treats you like garbage do you feel all loving inside about that person? Yeah, people will say they love everyone. Talk is talk. It's what you do. So again, do you feel all loving towards people who have done you wrong? Jesus commands this from you

If and when you are sued for X amount in court do you pay more than what you are ordered to pay? Give extra? Have you or would you! Jesus commands this from you.

Do you give to the one who asks? Jesus says you are not to turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Would you loan me $5.00?

YOU MUST KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. YOU DO REALIZE THIS, RIGHT? HE ONLY COVERS TRANSGRESSION UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. ONLY THE FIRST ONE.
IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE A GOOD DEAL GOING WITH JESUS, THINK AGAIN! YOU CHOSE TO DENY BEING UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. THEY CONTAIN LAWS THAT ARE PRETTY EASY TO KEEP. YOU WENT WITH JESUS SO YOU COULD BE FREE FROM KEEPING THOSE LAWS. AND YOU TRADED IT FOR OBEDIENCE TO JESUS. HE DIDNT DIE FOR YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO HIS LAWS. JUST THE OLD ONES. AND JESUS' COMMANDMENTS NO CHRISTIAN KEEPS. MAYBE ONCE IN AWHILE. BUT ONCE IN AWHILE WASN'T THE DEAL.
HERE:Hear is what your Christian Testament tells you. Either you believe Jesus or you don't. Either the gospel is true or it isn't.
So, is this true or a lie:
"For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."
FREE FROM SINS COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. ONLY THE FIRST.

You should have kept what was behind curtain #1 because curtain #2 offers no protection from sinning against Jesus.

What kind of spirit says this:
"If you love those who love you what reward will you have? Even the tax collection do that"

What a thing to say!! Jesus Christ!

Whoever or whatever he is - he has put you in a bad sutuatiin. I know, all Christians hear is 'eternal life's and they are sold
Why, that's the oldest trick in the book Telling people they don't have to keep the law God gave and promise eternal life to those who disobey the law.
Remember the serpent? The serpent succleededn getting Adam and Even to ignore God's law. And he tempted them with the greatest temptation. Promising they will live forever..
And the parable about Jesus opening the eyes of one born blind.. you know that story. In that story someone says "Has it ever been heard since time began that someone opened the eyes of one born blind?"
NOTICE THE WORDS "time began". Now go read the story of how the serpent opened the eyes of Adam and Eve.
Now you may say that the Jesus parable story is really about vision. REALLY? Jesus said what 'BLIND' means. It means to be without sin. Which ties in exactly with the story of Adam and Eve. As soon as they sinned their eyes were opened.
So then, your testament asks you a question. Has the eyes of the blind ever been opened by anyone except Jesus? Who? Anyone get people to turn away from God's law before? Who? Anyone tell people they will receive eternal life even though they disobey God? Who? Who dies ? Adam and Eve. Who lives forever? Who has been with us since the beginning?

Did you notice how the evil spirits obey Jesus? Did you hear Jesus when he said he gave his disciples power over unclean spirits? Not clean but unclean.
Oddly enough Jesus even says that man will do anything to save his own life. And that's why you believe in him because you have been promised eternal life. Man's greatest desire.

Now tell me about that voice of jesus.? Are you hearing what you want to hear or hope to hear? Or do you actually read what he says and pay attention?

Christians believe they have carried out the desire of Adam's heart.
When God asked Adam why he did what he did what did Adam do? Did he apologize and promise to change his ways? NO.
Adam said "The woman you gave to be with me she gave it to me and I ate it". The operative words are THE WOMAN YOU GAVE TO ME. He put the blame on God.
Now if Adam pointed the finger at God then according to Adam, if anyone should die for the sin it should be God.
Now do you know any people who are willing to have God die for their sins? Who are these people who think like Adam? Christians.
Who destroyed Adam and Eve?

Adam and Eve thought they could hide behind fig leaves
Because when you try to cover your sins you admit that the law is true and admit that you have sinned. Nobody hides unless they think they have to.
Jesus: the fatal fig leaf

[Consocius]

[Replying to Consocius in post #2]
You realize he's the Jewish Messiah don't you? Like you say Jesus wasn't what they are expecting. So why are you expecting something different?
And because the Messiah is the Jewish Messiah he has to be accepted by the Jews. Jesus isn't accepted by the Jews. How many more thousands of years do you want to wait for somebody who's not the Messiah?

If you consider that the Word is not a dead letter, than you see that those of the Judaic Church who were of the true Israel, or remnant of the true Israel, were able to see hat the Lord is Messiah, and accept the explanation of the Word that He was given. But that Judaic Church, which was not of the true Israel, rejected Him, because they limited themselves to the letter alone, due to their minds not having been purified via the baptism of John. So, that latter Judaic Church just expected the national liberatior. While that part of the Judaic Chuch, which was the remains of the true Israel, while also expecting the national liberator, was able to be enlightened that by the national liberation is meant the true process of the spiritual liberation, more interior one than earlier was possible, opened up by the Lord.

A minister was trying to convince a Jew that Jesus was the Messiah but the Jew didn't believe it. The minister said how do you know Jesus isn't the messiah? The Jews have been wrong before. The Jews thought Simon Bar Kokhba was the Messiah and he wasn't.
The Jew said to the minister: How do you know Bar Kohkba wasn't the Messiah?
The minister said Because Bar Kohkba died!
The Jew looked at the minister and kept silent.
After a few seconds had past the expression on the ministers face changed. He realized what he said

To know that the Lord is the Messiah, one has to be in the affection of truth. And at least to some degree, for the sake of truth itself, and this affection must be at least somewhat free from the dominating sway of the love of self and the world, from the passions, and other things of the proud uncircumcised heart, that is, uncircumcised love or will, that is, not purified from the ambitions, that are either devilish or satanic in nature, or both. Then if there is such an affection and preferrably not only for the sake of truth alone, but even understanding it, and even better, not simply understanding, but livining according to it, and this, better, not for the sake of oneself alone, but for the sake of the good of others, and even better, for the sake of God in the first place, and also life eternal, then, if this is present even in the small degree, than it is possible for a man to see who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is said:

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon son of Jonah; for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but My Father who is in the heavens."

Thus, it is then possible to see in the scope of the works of the Lord, in his Teaching of the love, charity, mercy, justice which is the essence of the Law, that He is the true Messiah, especially that the prophecies were fulfilled with regard to Him, some literally, some spiritually, it is also being possible to see into the truth of his Resurrection, thus while putting away everything human of Mary, putting on the Divine from the Father (in Him), thus making His Human Divine, which is different from the human of any other men.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #17]

So if some guy says "my sheep hear my voice" that means he is the Messiah?
Anyone can say that.

His voice is how I will recognize Him when He returns. Wasn't that your question?

When someone says those words that will impress you?

He has already said those words. His sheep hear His voice - then and now.

When the apostles heard Him call, they dropped everything and followed Him.

I've read what is supposedly quoted to have said.
He said:
Love your enemies. Do you? Do you love your enemies?

Yes.

When someone does you wrong or treats you like garbage do you feel all loving inside about that person? Yeah, people will say they love everyone. Talk is talk. It's what you do.

Exactly - so that we forgive those who have wronged us, pray for them as well. Bless those who curse us. Give to the one in need. Even if they have made themselves our enemies.

Do you give to the one who asks? Jesus says you are not to turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Would you loan me $5.00?

Sure, but probably I would just give it to you.

YOU MUST KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. YOU DO REALIZE THIS, RIGHT? HE ONLY COVERS TRANSGRESSION UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. ONLY THE FIRST ONE.

The one who loves Him will keep His commands. If we love Him, we will keep His commands, remain in His word.

If we fail however, His blood covers us - and we have forgiveness (fore given) in Him. This is not limited the way you think it is limited.

IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE A GOOD DEAL GOING WITH JESUS, THINK AGAIN! YOU CHOSE TO DENY BEING UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT.

Deny?

The first covenant was open only to (physical) Israel, and it included the law that was given to Moses.

When Christ came - and after He was rejected by His own - the new covenant opened up to Gentiles as well.

But the law of that covenant is love, and instead of being written on stone tablets, it is written upon the heart.

THEY CONTAIN LAWS THAT ARE PRETTY EASY TO KEEP. YOU WENT WITH JESUS SO YOU COULD BE FREE FROM KEEPING THOSE LAWS.

Didn't you just say those laws are easy to keep? That the commands Christ gave are hard to keep? How does it then make sense to say people 'went with Jesus' so they could be free from easy laws?

I come to and follow Jah'eshua because God drew me to His Son (the Truth), because I love Him and His Father (though they loved me first), and I owe Him my life (and the life of my household)

AND YOU TRADED IT FOR OBEDIENCE TO JESUS. HE DIDNT DIE FOR YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO HIS LAWS. JUST THE OLD ONES. AND JESUS' COMMANDMENTS NO CHRISTIAN KEEPS. MAYBE ONCE IN AWHILE. BUT ONCE IN AWHILE WASN'T THE DEAL.
HERE:Hear is what your Christian Testament tells you. Either you believe Jesus or you don't. Either the gospel is true or it isn't.
So, is this true or a lie:
"For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."
FREE FROM SINS COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. ONLY THE FIRST.

Just because Christ frees people from sins committed under the first covenant (which can only apply to those who were part of that first covenant), does not mean that He does not forgive people for other sins.

What kind of spirit says this:
"If you love those who love you what reward will you have? Even the tax collection do that"

What a thing to say!! Jesus Christ!

Are you pretending you don't know that He is saying to do MORE than just that, not less?

Love those who love you sure... most do that.

But also love those who do not love you, love even your enemies.

Whoever or whatever he is - he has put you in a bad sutuatiin. I know, all Christians hear is 'eternal life's and they are sold

I have not been put in a bad situation.

Be merciful, and mercy will be shown you.
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Serving comes from love (for God and His Son, who loved us first.) Truth is what (and who) I was seeking.

Why, that's the oldest trick in the book Telling people they don't have to keep the law God gave and promise eternal life to those who disobey the law.
Remember the serpent? The serpent succleededn getting Adam and Even to ignore God's law. And he tempted them with the greatest temptation. Promising they will live forever..

All they had to do in order to live forever was eat from the Tree of Life - which they were already permitted to eat from. God had already given them the means to live forever.

They wanted something more than that.

And the parable about Jesus opening the eyes of one born blind.. you know that story. In that story someone says "Has it ever been heard since time began that someone opened the eyes of one born blind?"
NOTICE THE WORDS "time began". Now go read the story of how the serpent opened the eyes of Adam and Eve.
Now you may say that the Jesus parable story is really about vision. REALLY? Jesus said what 'BLIND' means. It means to be without sin. Which ties in exactly with the story of Adam and Eve. As soon as they sinned their eyes were opened.

Blind doesn't mean to be without sin. Blind means being unable to see.

In this case, it was physical blindness. In other cases, it was about spiritual blindness - which includes 'knowing not what you do'.

You keep attempting to connect Christ with the serpent simply because Christ opened the eyes of a man born blind (even though the serpent did not actually open the eyes of Adam and Eve).

Perhaps you forgot that God opens eyes as well:

And Elisha prayed, “Open his eyes, LORD, so that he may see.” Then [the LORD] opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 2 Kings 6:17 (also verse 20)

Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. Genesis 21:9

Then [the LORD] opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of [the LORD] standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand. And Balaam bowed low and fell facedown. Numbers 22:31

the LORD opens the eyes of the blind, the LORD lifts those who are weighed down, the LORD loves the righteous. Psalm 146:8

Or that God said about His servant:

I, [the LORD], have called you for a righteous purpose, and I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people and a light to the nations, 7to open the eyes of the blind, to bring prisoners out of the dungeon and those sitting in darkness out from the prison house. Isaiah 42:6-7

Now tell me about that voice of jesus.? Are you hearing what you want to hear or hope to hear? Or do you actually read what he says and pay attention?

I hear Him (Jah'eshua, not "Jesus"), His voice. What I ask to hear is truth.

Christians believe they have carried out the desire of Adam's heart.
When God asked Adam why he did what he did what did Adam do? Did he apologize and promise to change his ways? NO.
Adam said "The woman you gave to be with me she gave it to me and I ate it". The operative words are THE WOMAN YOU GAVE TO ME. He put the blame on God.

Adam did blame God - and also the woman.

Now if Adam pointed the finger at God then according to Adam, if anyone should die for the sin it should be God.
Now do you know any people who are willing to have God die for their sins? Who are these people who think like Adam? Christians.

Now who is reading and seeing what they want to see?

A - Adam blamed God (and the woman) out of a lack of love... and as if God (and the woman) were truly at fault, instead of him being at fault.

There are people from all walks of life who blame God (and others) for their own sins. That is the only connection you can legitimately make here.

B - Jah'eshua - the Son of God - gave His life out of love. He was not at fault. He gave 'life for life.' Not because He deserved to die - and not because He did anything wrong - but out of love (for His Father, and then also for us, so what we may live.)

Who destroyed Adam and Eve?

Adam and Eve were not destroyed. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowing good (life) and bad (death). You cannot eat from death and not die (unless you were to eat from the Tree of Life afterward, but they were no longer permitted to do so.)

That doesn't mean they will not receive a resurrection at the resurrection of the dead.

Adam and Eve thought they could hide behind fig leaves
Because when you try to cover your sins you admit that the law is true and admit that you have sinned. Nobody hides unless they think they have to.
Jesus: the fatal fig leaf

It was not the fig leaf that was fatal.

Nor is Christ the fig leaf in the garden. He is the Tree of Life.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy