every tear

[Athetotheist]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Imagine yourself in heaven after the end of this world, where the throngs of the saved have been gathered to sing praises to Jesus for eternity.....

.....but someone you loved very deeply and dearly in this life is not there. That someone was loving, kind, humble and generous, but was just never convinced of the Jesus story......

.....so now you're in heaven forever and your dear one is not, and sometimes you stand alone at the edge of heaven looking out into the abyss and remembering.

As long as you remember, can every tear be wiped from your eyes? How? Must an act of divine amnesia be worked upon you to remove the sorrow from your heart by removing the loved one from your mind? Are you to simply put your memory and your love away in the eternal rejoicing? If so, is the eternal bliss still genuine?

[POI]

I believe hell is what the people who end up there wants. Why would I not be happy, if people get what they want?

Given the dichotomy of (eternal bliss vs eternal torment), I doubt anyone would willfully volunteer for the later. Much the same as if someone is robbing you, and asking you to either (hand over your wallet vs being shot). The victim is not necessarily 'choosing' to be shot if he refuses to hand over his wallet, is he?

But you did not even address his question. Is your bliss genuine? The logical answer to the OP question is <no>.

I don't know will I be there, but I believe the bliss is genuine, because the people will understand that the situation is good, not likely what atheists imagine it to be. I believe God is good, therefore what ever He will do, will be good.

Since you believe Heaven is pure bliss, how might God achieve your pure bliss -- while you also know that some of your closest loved ones are not with you in eternal bliss, but instead experiencing eternal torment? Does he wipe your memory? Does he transform you, which makes you someone else? Other? Can you please actually give a rational answer here rather than submitting to blind obedience alone?

[Clownboat]

I believe hell is what the people who end up there wants. Why would I not be happy, if people get what they want?

Matthew 13:42 ►
New International Version
They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This posters beliefs are unjustified.

Why do you think that makes my belief wrong? Many people have said to me that they rather go to hell than be with God in eternal life.

Would you like to be with God, in His kingdom of righteousness, where there is no evil?

I was just ask if I would rather spend an eternity in a righteous, blissful heaven where there is no evil or spend eternity in a blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
I know, right! One thing is for sure. This posters beliefs remain unjustified.

No matter how much disdain anyone holds for the god concept we call Allah, we all would pick eternal bliss over eternal torture. Therefore believing that people want to go to the Christian hell is unjustified (quite silly if you ask me).

I prophecy that this poster will continue to hold to this unjustified belief that people want to spend an eternity in the Christian version of hell though.

[1213]

Since you believe Heaven is pure bliss, how might God achieve your pure bliss -- while you also know that some of your closest loved ones are not with you in eternal bliss, but instead experiencing eternal torment? Does he wipe your memory? Does he transform you, which makes you someone else? ...

I don't believe memory is wiped, or that person is changed to something else. If someone is not in heaven, it means he is utterly evil person. I would be sad about that the person is evil, not about the end of evil, which happens in hell. Bible tells that person is destroyed in hell. And I think it is good if evil doesn't continue forever. Do you think evil should continue forever?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #7]

Why do you think that makes my belief wrong? Many people have said to me that they rather go to hell than be with God in eternal life.

This is about a dearly loved one who just isn't convinced of the Christian Bible's heaven-and-hell story. Does a ho-hum dismissal of someone so close make for eternal bliss?

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. If one doesn't get the life, it means the person is not righteous. And if person is not righteous, I think it is better that he doesn't live forever, because he would make eternal life eternal suffering for all, if he could live forever. I am sad if people are not righteous. But, I don't think heaven is ruined by that sadness, because people are free to choose not be righteous. If people then don't get the life, I think it is what they want and what is best for all.

[POI]

Since you believe Heaven is pure bliss, how might God achieve your pure bliss -- while you also know that some of your closest loved ones are not with you in eternal bliss, but instead experiencing eternal torment? Does he wipe your memory? Does he transform you, which makes you someone else? ...

I don't believe memory is wiped, or that person is changed to something else. If someone is not in heaven, it means he is utterly evil person. I would be sad about that the person is evil, not about the end of evil, which happens in hell. Bible tells that person is destroyed in hell. And I think it is good if evil doesn't continue forever. Do you think evil should continue forever?

So, let me get this straight. If your closest loved ones were deemed 'evil' and destroyed, you would always remain in total bliss anyways, and never morn their eternal disappearance, simply because you are in Heaven? You see how this is not logical? You either need to be transformed -- to become more callus, or. have your memory wiped. Otherwise, you would not give a rip here on earth ether. if you lost a close loved one.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #13]

If someone is not in heaven, it means he is utterly evil person.

So a person who loved his neighbor as himself through his whole life is "utterly evil" for not believing in Jesus?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to 1213 in post #13]

If someone is not in heaven, it means he is utterly evil person.

So a person who loved his neighbor as himself through his whole life is "utterly evil" for not believing in Jesus?

Yup. The twisted illogic of religions on display.
At least not all religious people believe that those that worship a competing god concept or none at all are utterly evil. Happily for humanity, this seems to be a small minority humans that believe such a thing. Hopefully, when such people are dead, they will not have taught their children such things.

Only when Christians and Muslims stop telling their children that there is a God that loves them so much as to send them to a heaven, yet hates others so much as to send them to hell, will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed.

[theophile]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Imagine yourself in heaven after the end of this world, where the throngs of the saved have been gathered to sing praises to Jesus for eternity.....

.....but someone you loved very deeply and dearly in this life is not there. That someone was loving, kind, humble and generous, but was just never convinced of the Jesus story......

.....so now you're in heaven forever and your dear one is not, and sometimes you stand alone at the edge of heaven looking out into the abyss and remembering.

As long as you remember, can every tear be wiped from your eyes? How? Must an act of divine amnesia be worked upon you to remove the sorrow from your heart by removing the loved one from your mind? Are you to simply put your memory and your love away in the eternal rejoicing? If so, is the eternal bliss still genuine?

Does it say that one must be convinced of the Jesus story to be resurrected? It's more separating the good from the bad. Not a matter of intellectual assent but ethical commitment. i.e., "The dead were judged according to what they had done," not what they believed to be true.

The better question, IMO, is if there is, or should be, mourning and tears over the irredeemable ones left in the grave or cast into the lake of fire. I would say that there is, or should be, and would suggest that the verse you cite is less retrospective than it is forward-looking. i.e., there will be no more death, and same for the mourning, tears, and pain that come with it. This leaves room to cry for those who did not find salvation, even though irredeemable. Those who mourn such ones will be comforted in the new order. (Their tears will be wiped away.)

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to theophile in post #18]

Does it say that one must be convinced of the Jesus story to be resurrected?

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
(Mark 16:16)

This leaves room to cry for those who did not find salvation, even though irredeemable. Those who mourn such ones will be comforted in the new order. (Their tears will be wiped away.)

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

[theophile]

[Replying to theophile in post #18]

Does it say that one must be convinced of the Jesus story to be resurrected?

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
(Mark 16:16)

It matters what level of belief we are talking.

Personally speaking, I don't believe in the story. That such things literally happened. Nor would I call myself always faithful in the sense that really matters. All the love and sacrifice stuff, which is all that makes any real difference. It is more in the philosophy being conveyed where my so-called 'belief' is the strongest...

Does this make me more worthy than you to live on in the end? Less worthy than someone who only believes in the story? Even just some dumb acceptance of it as fact?

What ultimately matters in all this is what we do. Again, "the dead were judged according to what they had done" (Rev 20:12)

This leaves room to cry for those who did not find salvation, even though irredeemable. Those who mourn such ones will be comforted in the new order. (Their tears will be wiped away.)

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Wiping tears away from eyes still implies tears. That there may still be tears. These tears will just be wiped away and comforted when they come.

And again, it is the death that is no more that means there will be no more mourning or crying or pain. There will be no more new death to cause such things. This is true even as there is still old death that may.