THE EXTRATERRESTRIALS ARE HERE

[Ross]

For those who don't follow this subject; congress has recently been occupied taking seriously and assessing claims from whistle blowers and experts in this field that there has been a government cover up of visitation by vehicles and pilots from other worlds, some of which have been brought down by electromagnetic pulse weapons, and hidden and stored from the public from the time of the first atomic bombs, and beginning with the first atomic storage site at Roswell. A black government controlling all that is top secret behind the democratic temporary and visible government with president and political parties. This is one issue.

The other is; if multiple extra terrestrial civilizations do exist, hundreds of thousands or millions of years in advancement of ours, and are and have been monitoring earth and its occupants, how does this throw the Bibles accounts of creation out of the window?

Could an eternal God have waited from eternity past, just to put man on this planet 6000 years ago? Or is all of the above true, and are we at an age when there is about to be some outrageous evidence presented of life all over the universe to shock conventional theological belief?

[benchwarmer]

This would have a much more disastrous effect on physicists. If extraterrestrials were able to travel to this planet it would disrupt Einstein’s theories, throw modern physicists into chaos, and disprove math itself.

Not true. See:

https://www.space.com/20881-wormholes.html

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance. The shortcuts came to be called Einstein-Rosen bridges, or wormholes.

It's all theory at this point of course, but it wouldn't "disrupt Einstein’s theories, throw modern physicists into chaos, and disprove math itself". It's due to the current theories and math that wormholes were theorized. That doesn't mean they exist or that modern physics has all the answers. As usual in science, theories have to provide useful predictions that can be confirmed via observation or they just remain theories.

[JehovahsWitness]

The other is; if multiple extra terrestrial civilizations do exist, hundreds of thousands or millions of years in advancement of ours, and are and have been monitoring earth and its occupants, how does this throw the Bibles accounts of creation out of the window?

I don't think it does since Adam wasn't the first human anyway. There were people around other than those in the Garden of Eden, and that's how Cain could go to the land of Nod and find a wife when he was kicked out.

Or the narrative is indicating he married a sister or a niece.






JW



RELATED POSTS

Where did Cain get his wife?
viewtopic.php?p=962075#p962075

Did Cain meet his wife in the land of NOD?
viewtopic.php?p=1098897#p1098897

[Purple Knight]

The other is; if multiple extra terrestrial civilizations do exist, hundreds of thousands or millions of years in advancement of ours, and are and have been monitoring earth and its occupants, how does this throw the Bibles accounts of creation out of the window?

I don't think it does since Adam wasn't the first human anyway. There were people around other than those in the Garden of Eden, and that's how Cain could go to the land of Nod and find a wife when he was kicked out.

Not according to Genesis 3:20

"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living."

So who do you think Cain married? A goat? One of Eve's other children that already were expelled (or Cain dragged her with him) and simply weren't mentioned in the Genesis account?

Or the narrative is indicating he married a sister or a niece.

One who was never mentioned until then. I'm aware of the conspicuous absence of "don't marry your sister" in the Bible, indicating that this interpretation is at least possible. But the Talmud a couple times, including the rather infamous quote that says, "Only the Jew is human." and adds that others are called animals, refers to Adamic man when it says human. In other words, the Gentiles are not from Adam. (This is a highly politicised quote and is often used to fuel antisemitism, but they themselves will tell you, yes it says that, but it means Adamic man.)

[benchwarmer]

The other is; if multiple extra terrestrial civilizations do exist, hundreds of thousands or millions of years in advancement of ours, and are and have been monitoring earth and its occupants, how does this throw the Bibles accounts of creation out of the window?

I don't think it does since Adam wasn't the first human anyway. There were people around other than those in the Garden of Eden, and that's how Cain could go to the land of Nod and find a wife when he was kicked out.

Not according to Genesis 3:20

"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living."

So who do you think Cain married? A goat? One of Eve's other children that already were expelled and simply weren't mentioned in the Genesis account?

And thus another glaring issue with the Biblical narrative is shown. The Genesis accounts of how life began are a complete mess and an obvious mish mash of older stories. Just carefully read the first few chapters. The first account suggests the Earth is populated with all living things and then God rested. The next chapter there are no plants yet (what? you just finished creating them a paragraph or two ago....) Apparently there is nothing to tend the land, so the first humans are created (Adam and Eve) - wait, what?? You just created humans and all living things a paragraph or two ago.... Then it eventually proceeds to explain again how everything was formed, but uses a different order....

All this to say, there is little point trying to rescue this story and try to figure out who Adam and Eve's children married. However it was supposedly done, there was incest at some point and none of it makes sense.

[Ross]

The other is; if multiple extra terrestrial civilizations do exist, hundreds of thousands or millions of years in advancement of ours, and are and have been monitoring earth and its occupants, how does this throw the Bibles accounts of creation out of the window?

I don't think it does since Adam wasn't the first human anyway. There were people around other than those in the Garden of Eden, and that's how Cain could go to the land of Nod and find a wife when he was kicked out.

Or the narrative is indicating he married a sister or a niece.






JW



RELATED POSTS

Where did Cain get his wife?
viewtopic.php?p=962075#p962075

Did Cain meet his wife in the land of NOD?
viewtopic.php?p=1098897#p1098897

I agree unless someone shows me otherwise.

[Purple Knight]

And thus another glaring issue with the Biblical narrative is shown. The Genesis accounts of how life began are a complete mess and an obvious mish mash of older stories. Just carefully read the first few chapters. The first account suggests the Earth is populated with all living things and then God rested. The next chapter there are no plants yet (what? you just finished creating them a paragraph or two ago....) Apparently there is nothing to tend the land, so the first humans are created (Adam and Eve) - wait, what?? You just created humans and all living things a paragraph or two ago.... Then it eventually proceeds to explain again how everything was formed, but uses a different order....

All this to say, there is little point trying to rescue this story and try to figure out who Adam and Eve's children married. However it was supposedly done, there was incest at some point and none of it makes sense.

It makes enough sense to me. It's fantasy but it's not inconsistent. If it was that illogical I don't think it would have kept getting reproduced. All living things just excludes those who are truly human, which in this context means Jews (please don't shoot the messenger, all early societies were racist in that they consider their tribe the true humans). There were people before but they are the sixth day beasts of the field. All living things means yes, there were human-shaped things. Adam and Eve were not a new species. But they were special - human.

And yes Cain could have very well married his sister but that's a big stretch since the first time this wife is mentioned is in the land of Nod.

https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org ... ain-marry/
A similar mind-set explains where Cain’s wife came from. There were, no doubt, other people “out there” when God created Adam and Eve, but they didn’t count, as far as the Israelite storyteller was concerned. They weren’t fully human in the sense that Adam and Eve were. It was, in fact, appropriate that Cain married one of these “other” foreign people because his sin had literally diminished his full humanity and separated him not only from God but also from his properly human mother and father.

[JehovahsWitness]

... There were people before but they are the sixth day "beasts of the field". ...human-shaped things.

And yes Cain could have very well married his sister but that's a big stretch ...

I'm aware of the conspicuous absence of "don't marry your sister" in the Bible, indicating that this interpretation is at least possible.

OCCAM'S RAZOR:

• OPTION #1. A sub-human beast-like species was created outside of Eden and called "beasts of the field". Although the expression "beasts of the field" is frequently mentioned in the Jewish writings and always refers to literal wild animals, the Genesis account neglects to speak about the creation of literal wild animals and instead jumps to the creation of a species of beast like subhumans. Despite the text mentioning that the divine mandate was that each living group would reproduce according to their own kind and that everything created during all six days was {quote} "very good", this so-called group of humanoids, discovered by Cain after his travels, cross bred with him reproducing offspring.

• OPTION #2. He married his sister.

[JehovahsWitness]

One who was never mentioned until then.

Genesis is clearly not written in strict chronological order.

• The wife is not mentioned until NOD = > she must have been a "beast of the field "

Does this reasoning REALLY seem logical to you ? Isn't it more logical that Cain's wife is first mentioned when her existence was necessary to the narrative?

.... But the Talmud a couple times, including the rather infamous quote that says, "Only the Jew is human." and adds that others are called animals ...

I could not care less, Talmud is not in the bible canon. It amounts to one alternative interpretation which, under examination, is not faithful to the original bible text (see above).

DISCLAIMER: I hereby state for the record the above comment contains an unsupported Bible reference, that is considered no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book in this forum.

The above is specifically used ONLY to show what the bible says and what Christianity says.

==================================

This post is NOT for the purpose if having a theological discussion but to propose a possible response to the OP. I am making no claim , nor is the bible reference for the purpose of proving that Christianity is true.
[/quote]

[Ross]

Isn't it more logical that Cain's wife is first mentioned when her existence was necessary to the narrative?

Again I completely agree with this. The account says Cain went into the land of Nod and met or found a wife. There is no mention that he immediately found his partner, or any indication of the timescale involved, unless I am missing something.

[Purple Knight]

... There were people before but they are the sixth day "beasts of the field". ...human-shaped things.

And yes Cain could have very well married his sister but that's a big stretch ...

I'm aware of the conspicuous absence of "don't marry your sister" in the Bible, indicating that this interpretation is at least possible.

OCCAM'S RAZOR:

• OPTION #1. A sub-human beast-like species was created outside of Eden and called "beasts of the field". Although the expression "beasts of the field" is frequently mentioned in the Jewish writings and always refers to literal wild animals, the Genesis account neglects to speak about the creation of literal wild animals and instead jumps to the creation of a species of beast like subhumans. Despite the text mentioning that the divine mandate was that each living group would reproduce according to their own kind and that everything created during all six days was {quote} "very good", this so-called group of humanoids, discovered by Cain after his travels, cross bred with him reproducing offspring.

• OPTION #2. He married his sister.

It's a stretch because his sister isn't mentioned at all until Nod. The midrash that would have you believe that both Cain and Abel had twin sisters (and Cain wanted Abel's) reads like a terrible modern retcon. We already have a reason for the wedge driven between the brothers: God likes meat (...and might be a dragon...). Cain didn't have any meat to give him. Abel did. There's also a passage (I think) that says one of the brothers was born right after the other. If they both had twins then Eve was pregnant with four.

• The wife is not mentioned until NOD = > she must have been a "beast of the field "

Does this reasoning REALLY seem logical to you ? Isn't it more logical that Cain's wife is first mentioned when her existence was necessary to the narrative?

Genesis, emphasis added:

5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
5:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
5:10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters

None of these daughters did anything, so far as I know.

The only reason I mention the Talmud talking about non-Adamic people as beasts, is not to say that how they read it is canon, but to show that they read it exactly the same.

I don't see why it's weird to assume there might easily be human-shaped animals. There are: Apes. You're assuming that God does not reuse shapes or create things differently or favour differently within a kind.