What is wrong with abortion?

[arunangelo]

What is wrong with abortion?

Those who exercise true love respect all human beings irrespective of their appearance or size. They, therefore, recognize the humanity of a one cell stage human being by recognizing that it is an independent life form with human genes; and has a human life force within it that initiates, directs and sustains a process to take that person through successive stages of development (over many years) to transform that person from a single cell individual to a fully grown human being with 10 trillion cells, multiple complex systems and a brain with a memory capacity equal to 20,000 computers. They, therefore see destruction of human beings in the embryonic and fetal stage as murder. They also see such an act as gross violation of human rights because it denies the victim from reaching his/her full human potential.

[userr123]

First off, I did not mean to highlight that statement in red (my bad).
Anyways, abortion is still the killing of an innocent life that could have made a positive impact on the world but was aborted by an irresponsible parent. A short while ago, my school filled the surrounding fields with crosses; each cross symbolizing a life that was taken through abortion per day. The field was scattered with over 3,200 white crosses. You try to tell me that isn't wrong.

The red was my emphasis, not yours. It also appears to me that you are ignoring the medical FACTS presented, verses the ardous claims made in said video, which are nothing more than hyperbole; riddled with scientific, medical, and legal inaccuracies.

If you could cite references supporting your claim 3200 abortions per day, I would appreciate it. Please provide link to source if at all possible as well.

FTR, I am a mother of two. I personally would never have a pregnancy terminated on "whim", I am however, pro-choice.

As you seem to have interest in the abortion issue, I can suggest you have a look up in the "Putting Our Heads Together" forum, on the thread regarding abortion. Perhaps as you appear to be quite zealous, you may have some "solution" to the issue?

Here is a link to the statistics: http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
Like I said, I look at it as a result of corruption in society. Abortion is almost always a result of pre-marital sex which is immoral. Sex was created by God for marriage and not to be used irrisponisibly by young people who haven't learned how to control their bodies.
My school also helped in a "movement" that someone else had founded where each person sends a red envelope to the Obama. These envelopes are empty and have written on the outside, "This envelope represents one child who died in abortion. It is empty because that life was unable to offer anything to the world. LIFE begins at conception."
http://www.redenvelopeproject.org/

[Goat]

First off, I did not mean to highlight that statement in red (my bad).
Anyways, abortion is still the killing of an innocent life that could have made a positive impact on the world but was aborted by an irresponsible parent. A short while ago, my school filled the surrounding fields with crosses; each cross symbolizing a life that was taken through abortion per day. The field was scattered with over 3,200 white crosses. You try to tell me that isn't wrong.

Well, she busted your source and your claims, so now you are retreating. The 'could have made a positive impact on the world' is pure speculation. If someone has an irresponsible parent, it is more likely the person will be a detriment to society than a positive. The next problem I see is that you are assuming that the abortion is merely the desire for birth control. I would like to see you support that that is so, rather than medical reasons, or rape.

Do you have something more than emotionalism and unsupported claims?

I have something called morals and truth. I may only be 16 but I'm suprised to see that I feel like the only one that can still tell right from wrong. First of all, God did not create sex to be used outside of marriage. Sex was created to create a close bond between two spouses and to be "fruitful and multiply." If society would stick to proper morals and ethics, than we shouldn't even have to worry about abortion. Also, a baby being concieved as a result of rape is extremely rare and is not a decent argument to support abortion.

I see. You are enlighten and are better than others because you have 'morals and truth'? Do you know why women have abortions? Have you ever known someone who died because of complications from a pregnancy? I have... and it was a terrible tragedy.

Why shouldn't a woman be allowed to have an abortion due to rape or forced incest? How do you know it is 'very rare'? How about for medical reasons? Do you know what an ectopic pregnancy is?

[userr123]

First off, I did not mean to highlight that statement in red (my bad).
Anyways, abortion is still the killing of an innocent life that could have made a positive impact on the world but was aborted by an irresponsible parent. A short while ago, my school filled the surrounding fields with crosses; each cross symbolizing a life that was taken through abortion per day. The field was scattered with over 3,200 white crosses. You try to tell me that isn't wrong.

Well, she busted your source and your claims, so now you are retreating. The 'could have made a positive impact on the world' is pure speculation. If someone has an irresponsible parent, it is more likely the person will be a detriment to society than a positive. The next problem I see is that you are assuming that the abortion is merely the desire for birth control. I would like to see you support that that is so, rather than medical reasons, or rape.

Do you have something more than emotionalism and unsupported claims?

I have something called morals and truth. I may only be 16 but I'm suprised to see that I feel like the only one that can still tell right from wrong. First of all, God did not create sex to be used outside of marriage. Sex was created to create a close bond between two spouses and to be "fruitful and multiply." If society would stick to proper morals and ethics, than we shouldn't even have to worry about abortion. Also, a baby being concieved as a result of rape is extremely rare and is not a decent argument to support abortion.

I see. You are enlighten and are better than others because you have 'morals and truth'? Do you know why women have abortions? Have you ever known someone who died because of complications from a pregnancy? I have... and it was a terrible tragedy.

Why shouldn't a woman be allowed to have an abortion due to rape or forced incest? How do you know it is 'very rare'? How about for medical reasons? Do you know what an ectopic pregnancy is?

I am not better than anyone else. I am a sinner just like every human on earth. But I am saved through the power of Jesus Christ.
Women usually have abortions because they do not have the ability, money, etc., to raise the child. An alternative to that is adoption. There are millions of people out there who would be more than willing to adopt a child. Otherwise, if the person thinks that they are unable to deal with a child, I don't see why they were messing around with sex in the first place.
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm

[catalyst]

First off, I did not mean to highlight that statement in red (my bad).
Anyways, abortion is still the killing of an innocent life that could have made a positive impact on the world but was aborted by an irresponsible parent. A short while ago, my school filled the surrounding fields with crosses; each cross symbolizing a life that was taken through abortion per day. The field was scattered with over 3,200 white crosses. You try to tell me that isn't wrong.

The red was my emphasis, not yours. It also appears to me that you are ignoring the medical FACTS presented, verses the ardous claims made in said video, which are nothing more than hyperbole; riddled with scientific, medical, and legal inaccuracies.

If you could cite references supporting your claim 3200 abortions per day, I would appreciate it. Please provide link to source if at all possible as well.

FTR, I am a mother of two. I personally would never have a pregnancy terminated on "whim", I am however, pro-choice.

As you seem to have interest in the abortion issue, I can suggest you have a look up in the "Putting Our Heads Together" forum, on the thread regarding abortion. Perhaps as you appear to be quite zealous, you may have some "solution" to the issue?

Here is a link to the statistics: http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
Like I said, I look at it as a result of corruption in society. Abortion is almost always a result of pre-marital sex which is immoral. Sex was created by God for marriage and not to be used irrisponisibly by young people who haven't learned how to control their bodies.
My school also helped in a "movement" that someone else had founded where each person sends a red envelope to the Obama. These envelopes are empty and have written on the outside, "This envelope represents one child who died in abortion. It is empty because that life was unable to offer anything to the world. LIFE begins at conception."
http://www.redenvelopeproject.org/

Apparently you didn't read all the statistics on the first of the two sites you linked above prior to coming into this debate with your "godly" beliefs, spouting assumed morals and ethics. The site shows that of all abortions carried out in the US for the year 1996 (as that IS the year referenced in this study), 37.4% were Protestant, 31.3% were Catholic, 1.3% were Jewish and women with NO religious affilliation, totalled 23.7%. 18% of ALL abortions are perfomed on women whom identify as being "born-again/evangelical, so going by YOUR rhetoric, the vast majority of those "morally and ethically corrupt" could well be sitting in a pew near you!

It is also interesting to note that of teen abortion, they only number 20% of the total. I do assume teens are the ones you are targetting with the "young people whom have not learned to control their bodies", comment?


BTW, I too take challenge with your assuption that sex was "created" by bible god. If you could perhaps cite this reference in the bible, I would be interested.

Also, could you also cite the verse or verses where it states that Adam and Eve WERE actually married when bible god sent his command for them to go forth and multiply? (Gen 1:28)

Look forward to those citations. Thanks

[dgruber]

Two Cents...

In my opinion what this issue boils down to is responsibility. Too few people actually take responsibility for their actions, while instead choosing to "take the easy way out". Rape is a situation unto itself because the relationship was non-consensual, but other situations are not so.

If two people choose to put themselves into the position of possibly having a child then those two should be willing to accept the good and the bad of what goes along with that decision.

There are arguments back and forth on when a fetus actually becomes a fully functional human being, and many I have spoken with rest their entire opinion of abortion on those statistics. I tend to disagree with that stance because in my opinion the situation is pure and simple, that child will develop into a functional human being given the proper time, and killing that child because one deems that it is "not a child yet" is as immature and cruel as it gets. Who are you or who am I to decide who lives and who dies? Can one deal out that sort of judgement because it may inconvenience them?

Also I must impress something on those who deem the situation is the woman's decision alone. So if two people are married and don't intend to have a child, but it happens anyway, do you believe that the decision to abort or not is purely up to the woman because she is the one carrying the baby? I certainly hope not, and if that is the case then I would bring the strength of the marriage into question.

I will stop this short in case there are any responses.

[Goat]

Two Cents...

In my opinion what this issue boils down to is responsibility. Too few people actually take responsibility for their actions, while instead choosing to "take the easy way out". Rape is a situation unto itself because the relationship was non-consensual, but other situations are not so.

If two people choose to put themselves into the position of possibly having a child then those two should be willing to accept the good and the bad of what goes along with that decision.

There are arguments back and forth on when a fetus actually becomes a fully functional human being, and many I have spoken with rest their entire opinion of abortion on those statistics. I tend to disagree with that stance because in my opinion the situation is pure and simple, that child will develop into a functional human being given the proper time, and killing that child because one deems that it is "not a child yet" is as immature and cruel as it gets. Who are you or who am I to decide who lives and who dies? Can one deal out that sort of judgement because it may inconvenience them?

Also I must impress something on those who deem the situation is the woman's decision alone. So if two people are married and don't intend to have a child, but it happens anyway, do you believe that the decision to abort or not is purely up to the woman because she is the one carrying the baby? I certainly hope not, and if that is the case then I would bring the strength of the marriage into question.

I will stop this short in case there are any responses.

I think that the ultimate choice in a married situation should be the woman's choice, but I think that in any marriage worth while, a woman would take in consideration what her partner wanted, and then factor in her wants, needs and her health as well as the potential baby. Ultimately it is up to the woman though.

[catalyst]

Two Cents...

In my opinion what this issue boils down to is responsibility. Too few people actually take responsibility for their actions, while instead choosing to "take the easy way out".

If you are assuming that a woman making a decision as to terminating a pregnancy is an "easy out", you would be sorely mistaken. D&C's are by no means pleasant. Also an easy out would be popping a condom on the old john thomas wouldn't it? Why don't more men opt to do that?

Rape is a situation unto itself because the relationship was non-consensual, but other situations are not so.

Rape, more often than not happens, not at the hands of a stranger but someone the woman knows and thought she could trust, INCLUDING husbands. Perhaps if the men doing this could just get it through their heads that NO means NO women would have a little less to worry about. Despite what some religious doctrine may teach, a ring on a womans finger does NOT make her a sex slave.

If two people choose to put themselves into the position of possibly having a child then those two should be willing to accept the good and the bad of what goes along with that decision.

If the liasion is consentual from both sides, then both should take responsibility as to contraception should they not want the liason to result in pregnancy.

There are arguments back and forth on when a fetus actually becomes a fully functional human being, and many I have spoken with rest their entire opinion of abortion on those statistics. I tend to disagree with that stance because in my opinion the situation is pure and simple, that child will develop into a functional human being given the proper time, and killing that child because one deems that it is "not a child yet" is as immature and cruel as it gets. Who are you or who am I to decide who lives and who dies? Can one deal out that sort of judgement because it may inconvenience them?

If you are a christian and believe that your god controls all, where is the fairness as to "him" deciding whether the womans body will abort the foetus?

Also if people do want to discuss abortion then I am happy to. If people want to discuss a willfull expulsion of the feotus with medical aid, which is what they tend to say abortion IS, then could they please get the terminology RIGHT.

Abortion is the involuntary expulsion of the foetus. An abortion is the premature exit of the products of conception (the foetus, foetal membranes, and placenta) from the uterus. It is the loss of a pregnancy...PERIOD, and does not refer to why that pregnancy was lost and it is termed as abortion at between 6-12 weeks. Miscarriage is the involuntary expulsion of the foetus between 12 - 24(ish) weeks.

So please STOP bandying around the word abortion like it means something different to what it ACTUALLY does. Women whose body has involuntarily aborted BTW still have to go through the same medical procedure AS a willfull termination, known as a D&C, so there is a good chance that the placcard waving protestors are actually squealing out "murderer" to a woman whom has either miscarried or had a very stressful and grief-filled abortion(in its ACTUAL intended meaning).

Also I must impress something on those who deem the situation is the woman's decision alone. So if two people are married and don't intend to have a child, but it happens anyway, do you believe that the decision to abort or not is purely up to the woman because she is the one carrying the baby?

I stand firm on that. It IS the womans decision as to what she does with her own body. At no point did I say that a woman should keep what she has decided to do a secret from her spouse, however it is HER CHOICE.

I certainly hope not, and if that is the case then I would bring the strength of the marriage into question.

Hardly. All that would go to show is that there was a communication breakdown long before there was a "bun in the oven" to contemplate. It should actually be prior to the point that responsibility was being owned by the relative party. If they had decided that kids were not yet on the agenda, then BOTH should have used contraception and made it known to eachother what the personal choice was as to that.

[dgruber]

If you are assuming that a woman making a decision as to terminating a pregnancy is an "easy out", you would be sorely mistaken. D&C's are by no means pleasant. Also an easy out would be popping a condom on the old john thomas wouldn't it? Why don't more men opt to do that?

It is a matter of comparison. It is an easier way out than keeping the child and properly raising it. Of course one could make the argument that it is very mentally and emotionally challenging to have to make a decision like that and that is completely understandable.

So you are going to bring the blame back on to the man? First of all you can wear a condom and still impregnate a woman and secondly, and more importantly, what happens prior to and during intercourse is the responsibility of both people, not one more than the other, so please don't lecture me about condoms.

Rape, more often than not happens, not at the hands of a stranger but someone the woman knows and thought she could trust, INCLUDING husbands. Perhaps if the men doing this could just get it through their heads that NO means NO women would have a little less to worry about. Despite what some religious doctrine may teach, a ring on a womans finger does NOT make her a sex slave.

I agree that a ring does not make a woman a sex slave.

I agree, no means no and man or woman should acknowledge that, because although the norm is men raping women, it does happen the other way.

If the liasion is consentual from both sides, then both should take responsibility as to contraception should they not want the liason to result in pregnancy.

Agreed.

If you are a christian and believe that your god controls all, where is the fairness as to "him" deciding whether the womans body will abort the foetus?

Also if people do want to discuss abortion then I am happy to. If people want to discuss a willfull expulsion of the feotus with medical aid, which is what they tend to say abortion IS, then could they please get the terminology RIGHT.

Abortion is the involuntary expulsion of the foetus. An abortion is the premature exit of the products of conception (the foetus, foetal membranes, and placenta) from the uterus. It is the loss of a pregnancy...PERIOD, and does not refer to why that pregnancy was lost and it is termed as abortion at between 6-12 weeks. Miscarriage is the involuntary expulsion of the foetus between 12 - 24(ish) weeks.

So please STOP bandying around the word abortion like it means something different to what it ACTUALLY does. Women whose body has involuntarily aborted BTW still have to go through the same medical procedure AS a willfull termination, known as a D&C, so there is a good chance that the placcard waving protestors are actually squealing out "murderer" to a woman whom has either miscarried or had a very stressful and grief-filled abortion(in its ACTUAL intended meaning).

I do not understand what you are getting at in your first statement here. Maybe which get aborted and which do not? Please expand.

I know what abortion means thank you. Please do not put words in my mouth or make statements that you do not know are true. I believe that it is clear what I am talking about in these situations.

I stand firm on that. It IS the womans decision as to what she does with her own body. At no point did I say that a woman should keep what she has decided to do a secret from her spouse, however it is HER CHOICE.

I agree that it is ultimately her choice because only she can decide what she does with her body, no one can force that on her.

Hardly. All that would go to show is that there was a communication breakdown long before there was a "bun in the oven" to contemplate. It should actually be prior to the point that responsibility was being owned by the relative party. If they had decided that kids were not yet on the agenda, then BOTH should have used contraception and made it known to eachother what the personal choice was as to that.

And yet I say again I would bring the strength of the marriage into question if something so important was not communicated by both (as you have said).

[handofnergal]

What is wrong with abortion?

Those who exercise true love respect all human beings irrespective of their appearance or size. They, therefore, recognize the humanity of a one cell stage human being by recognizing that it is an independent life form with human genes; and has a human life force within it that initiates, directs and sustains a process to take that person through successive stages of development (over many years) to transform that person from a single cell individual to a fully grown human being with 10 trillion cells, multiple complex systems and a brain with a memory capacity equal to 20,000 computers. They, therefore see destruction of human beings in the embryonic and fetal stage as murder. They also see such an act as gross violation of human rights because it denies the victim from reaching his/her full human potential.

What about rape or incest? What about birth complications that represent health hazards to the baby or the mother, or both? (look up ectopic pregnancy, and then consider the many other complications of fetal development and birth complication)

I'll tell you what I have against the pro-life movement, the idea that a zygote has the same rights as a fully grown human being. I find it ironic that most people who are pro-life are in favor of guns and the death penalty. Does that make a bit of sense?

[nygreenguy]

Calling a fetus a human or a person is like calling a seed a tree. Sure, it has the potential to become a tree someday, but no one in their right mind would call it a tree.