The Muslim Stance

[JoeyKnothead]

Its my understanding of Islam that it wants to 'take over' the world, making Islam the default religion for all. I ask these questions in a sincere effort to seek the truth, and I ask in an honest effort to clear the air.

Please forgive me if I'm in error, and I can't quote the Koran, I'm trying to get some clarification.

1- Does Islam seek to impose its brand of religion on the world?
2- Does Islam allow others to worship as they please, with no restrictions, taxes, or any other impediments?
3- Leave Israel out. Do NOT include it in this thread. Could Islam allow Jewish people to form their own communities? Again, we will NOT discuss Israel What I'm asking is could Islam accept a Jewish community to exist outside of any place that Islam considers holy?

4- I understand how delicate the Israel issue is, and I do NOT want to stir that nest up in this thread. If anyone wishes to discuss Israel start a different thread.

[van]

Quran, Mohammad, Islam condones subdueing of, violence against and killing of non-muslims. Islam is all about revenge.

Yes Christians do bad things. We can all agree on that. We are sinners just like everyone else.

the point is

Jesus and Gospel is all about forgiveness, loving and peace-turn the other cheek.

[TrueReligion]

Quran, Mohammad, Islam condones subdueing of, violence against and killing of non-muslims. Islam is all about revenge.

Yes Christians do bad things. We can all agree on that. We are sinners just like everyone else.

the point is

Jesus and Gospel is all about forgiveness, loving and peace-turn the other cheek.

If Jesus taught giving another cheek, why America Bomb innocent people in Afghanistan?
Why war was started for no reason in Iraq?
Why America is doing attacks in PAKISTAN?

Suppose to be christians follow Jesus right? but its Muslims who are following the teachings of Jesus, as the teachings are given by God to Jesus, which God gave to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (pbuta)..

Prove anything from Islamic scripture, that the killing of innocent people is ordered.

Quran on the contrary say
"On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)

If some muslims are doing bad things, you can;t blame whole Islam, do Muslims or Jews blame whole of Christianity of what Hitler did to Jews? killing millions of them? he was religiously motivated right?

[McCulloch]

If Jesus taught giving another cheek, why America Bomb innocent people in Afghanistan?

The obvious answer is that American foreign policy is not informed or directed by Christian theology.

[TrueReligion]

If Jesus taught giving another cheek, why America Bomb innocent people in Afghanistan?

The obvious answer is that American foreign policy is not informed or directed by Christian theology.

It doesn;t matter, as all who took part, mostly were christians, incuding US President, Army Chief etc etc.

[McCulloch]

If Jesus taught giving another cheek, why America Bomb innocent people in Afghanistan?

The obvious answer is that American foreign policy is not informed or directed by Christian theology.

It doesn;t matter, as all who took part, mostly were christians, incuding US President, Army Chief etc etc.

No, what I meant was that they don't actually believe what Jesus taught. There is a lot of that going around.

[TrueReligion]

If Jesus taught giving another cheek, why America Bomb innocent people in Afghanistan?

The obvious answer is that American foreign policy is not informed or directed by Christian theology.

It doesn;t matter, as all who took part, mostly were christians, incuding US President, Army Chief etc etc.

No, what I meant was that they don't actually believe what Jesus taught. There is a lot of that going around.

Ok, this maybe the reason, but if they dont consider religious teaching, they also dont have right to blame and attack whole of Islam coz of some bad people.

[van]

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&a ... size=A[url]
12/18/2009 13:36
INDONESIA
A thousand Islamic extremists, including women and children, storm a Church near Jakarta
by Mathias Hariyadi
The building was near completion and was to be used for Christmas Mass. Local Catholics are afraid that more attacks could take place during the festive season. Police and local authorities urge Catholics to celebrate the service anyway.

Jakarta (AsiaNews) – Last night a crowd of angry Muslims, including women and children, attacked the Church of Saint Albert, in Bekasi Regency, about 30 kilometres east of Jakarta. The situation is now under control but the local Catholic community is afraid of an escalation before Christmas.
Kurniadi is a member of the committee charged with the church’s construction. He told AsiaNews, “Suddenly, a bunch of bikers arrived in the area where the church stands.� They had banners and kerosene tanks. “We don’t know why we were attacked,� he said.

Kristina Maria Renteana, who was present when the Church was attacked, said, “The mob had about a thousand people,� not only men, but “women and children� as well.

Running around in cars and motorbikes is a tradition for Indonesian Muslims during “national celebrations.�

Last night was the first day of the Islamic New Year, the start of the month of Muharram. Local sources told AsiaNews, on condition of anonymity, that the “crowd was made of people from Tarumajaya and Babelan�, two villages in North Bekasi where Islamic extremists are a majority.

Saint Albert’s Church, a chapel that is part of Saint Arnold’ Church in Bekasi, was not yet finished. Started on 11 May 2008, it had the required building permit for places of worship and was 80 per cent complete. Workers had finished the walls and the roof. Only ceramic floor tiles had to be laid.

Although not yet finished, it was set to host Christmas Mass for the local Christian community.

Now it is damaged but police and government authorities have urged the parish priest, Fr Joseph Jagadwa, to go ahead with the Mass anyway.[/url]

[van]

http://interested-participant.blogspot. ... ndals.html

Vandals deface the town war memorial

Notice what is written in spray paint:

Islam will dominate the world osama

[van]

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=31875

Egyptian Christian women forced to marry, convert to Islam, reports say

Posted on Dec 14, 2009 | by Cindy Ortiz
WASHINGTON (BP)--Coptic Christian women in Egypt are being forced to marry and convert to Islam and that oppression is part of a larger pattern of persecution against Christians facilitated by the Egyptian government, according to two recent reports.

"Cases of abduction, forced conversion and marriage are usually accompanied by acts of violence which include rape, beatings, deprivation of food and other forms of physical and mental abuse," said a new assessment by Christian Solidarity International and the Coptic Foundation for Human Rights.

At the same time, the 2009 U.S. State Department report on international religious freedom noted the Egyptian government fails to prosecute crimes against Copts and even has taken a hand in destroying church property and, in one case, a government official reportedly raped a woman who had converted from Islam to Christianity.

About 90 percent of the Egyptian population is Sunni Muslim, and the rest primarily identify themselves as Coptic Christians, according to the Human Rights Watch report "Prohibited Identities: State Interference with Religious Freedom." Copts typically are underprivileged and experience discrimination.

Egyptian sex traffickers entice Coptic Christian women from low-income families by promising an escape from poverty, then force the women into Muslim "marriages" or outright slavery, according to the CSI/CFHR report.

"Such abuse remains covered in a cloak of silence and tacit acceptance, even though it is against the constitutional affirmations of civil rights," the report said.

Once a Coptic girl is coerced into marriage and Islamic conversion, her family will not take her back, and if she leaves her "husband," she is considered a "disgrace" to her family, the report said. In addition, the Coptic Orthodox Church excommunicates female members who wed Muslim men, the State Department said.

Since Islam is the "religion of state" in Egypt, conversion to Islam is easy, while returning to Christianity is unacceptable, the HRW report said. The Civil Status Department, which issues national identity cards, sometimes refuses to give Coptic women a new card identifying her as Christian since it is considered apostasy for a Coptic woman to leave Islam, even to return to her religion of origin.

Egyptian law requires every citizen to have an identity card for purposes such as voting, employment and education.

Most of the cases of Coptic women being coerced into marriage are not reported and "observers, including human rights groups, find it extremely difficult to determine whether compulsion was used, as most cases involve a female Copt who converts to Islam when she marries a Muslim male," the State Department report said.

In two examples of coerced conversion, CSI/CFHR reported Nov. 10:

-- An Egyptian woman was raped and beaten since she would not have sex with the man she was forced to marry. The Coptic cross on her wrist was later removed with acid.

-- Another woman was forced to marry a Muslim lawyer and work for him in "slave-like conditions" for five years.

John Eibner, CSI's chief executive officer, urged President Obama in a letter to combat the trafficking of Christian women and girls in Egypt and to make sure the U.S. makes this issue a priority in its relations with Egypt.

"Trafficking of Christian women in Egypt is not a new phenomenon.... But this problem has now reached boiling point within Egypt's Coptic community, which views it as symptomatic of a much broader pattern of religious persecution," Eibner said in his letter.

[TrueReligion]

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=31875

Egyptian Christian women forced to marry, convert to Islam, reports say

Posted on Dec 14, 2009 | by Cindy Ortiz
WASHINGTON (BP)--Coptic Christian women in Egypt are being forced to marry and convert to Islam and that oppression is part of a larger pattern of persecution against Christians facilitated by the Egyptian government, according to two recent reports.

"Cases of abduction, forced conversion and marriage are usually accompanied by acts of violence which include rape, beatings, deprivation of food and other forms of physical and mental abuse," said a new assessment by Christian Solidarity International and the Coptic Foundation for Human Rights.

At the same time, the 2009 U.S. State Department report on international religious freedom noted the Egyptian government fails to prosecute crimes against Copts and even has taken a hand in destroying church property and, in one case, a government official reportedly raped a woman who had converted from Islam to Christianity.

About 90 percent of the Egyptian population is Sunni Muslim, and the rest primarily identify themselves as Coptic Christians, according to the Human Rights Watch report "Prohibited Identities: State Interference with Religious Freedom." Copts typically are underprivileged and experience discrimination.

Egyptian sex traffickers entice Coptic Christian women from low-income families by promising an escape from poverty, then force the women into Muslim "marriages" or outright slavery, according to the CSI/CFHR report.

"Such abuse remains covered in a cloak of silence and tacit acceptance, even though it is against the constitutional affirmations of civil rights," the report said.

Once a Coptic girl is coerced into marriage and Islamic conversion, her family will not take her back, and if she leaves her "husband," she is considered a "disgrace" to her family, the report said. In addition, the Coptic Orthodox Church excommunicates female members who wed Muslim men, the State Department said.

Since Islam is the "religion of state" in Egypt, conversion to Islam is easy, while returning to Christianity is unacceptable, the HRW report said. The Civil Status Department, which issues national identity cards, sometimes refuses to give Coptic women a new card identifying her as Christian since it is considered apostasy for a Coptic woman to leave Islam, even to return to her religion of origin.

Egyptian law requires every citizen to have an identity card for purposes such as voting, employment and education.

Most of the cases of Coptic women being coerced into marriage are not reported and "observers, including human rights groups, find it extremely difficult to determine whether compulsion was used, as most cases involve a female Copt who converts to Islam when she marries a Muslim male," the State Department report said.

In two examples of coerced conversion, CSI/CFHR reported Nov. 10:

-- An Egyptian woman was raped and beaten since she would not have sex with the man she was forced to marry. The Coptic cross on her wrist was later removed with acid.

-- Another woman was forced to marry a Muslim lawyer and work for him in "slave-like conditions" for five years.

John Eibner, CSI's chief executive officer, urged President Obama in a letter to combat the trafficking of Christian women and girls in Egypt and to make sure the U.S. makes this issue a priority in its relations with Egypt.

"Trafficking of Christian women in Egypt is not a new phenomenon.... But this problem has now reached boiling point within Egypt's Coptic community, which views it as symptomatic of a much broader pattern of religious persecution," Eibner said in his letter.

Seems you didnt got what was quoted to you in nice and humble language.
Only thing which you are showing, is what your religion teaches you, to bring flamable things in the world, and bring cruelty and hatred.