witchcraft

[Telora]

Is there any middle ground between the actions that can be considered supernatural witchcraft and the faiths that directly forbid it, what exactly is forbidden and why?

[Serpent Oracle]

And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. (II Kings 2:23-24 KJV)

Some of the stories that got into the biblical cannon had to be like nursery rhymes meant to be a moral story for little children, like "The Three Little Pigs", or "Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf".

Otherwise Christians would have to face the fact that their "LORD" Jesus Christ sics bears on little children for making fun of a bald head.

How anyone can take the biblical cannon of fables seriously is beyond me.

Who decides biblical stories are fables or meant to be taken literally?

You?

[Serpent Oracle]

There is nothing in the context to indicate this is intended as a nursery story for children.

100% correct.

[Burninglight]

Burninglight wrote:

But I am binding only what is not of God in Jesus' name. I fear no spells from witches nor karma. If anyone puts a curse on me, it will come in contact with a supernatural reflecting mirror for I am not perfect, but I am a child of God.

There's no weapon formed against me that shall prosper. Demons and evil spirits are what I rebuke. They only have power to do stupid magick like make things fall and noise to a Christian. They have power to curse nonbelievers or those that fear.

Greater is He in me than Him that is in the world. Perfect love casts out all fear. Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee for he trusted in thee! I can be spiritually violent./ It is written the violent taketh by force. Don't twist my words here. I said spiritually violent!

You sound a little desperate there, Burninglight. Shall we play games?

I rebuke you in the name of Belial and the Seven Judges. Begone, little parrot. Scuttle back to your dark church and praise your murderous God who slaughtered his own son to hide his own mistakes, and is rebuked even now by the archangels.

You mentioned the kids and the she bears and prophet a few times. Those kids sought of did like you are doing. They were in essences mocking God’s prophet, God’s message and God. The only difference between you and them is that God has been much more patient with you, but you mistaken the meekness of God for weakness. Moreover, you are being disrespectful that is against forum rules. I havent called you a bird that scuttles. You must be civil; if you cannot be, I will flag you.

The Bible states in Jude : Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.� 10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion. 12 These are hidden reefs[e] at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Heb 10 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.� And again, “The Lord will judge his people.� 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Finally, look at 2 Peter 2 This shows me everything, but I won’t quote it. You can look it up yourself; maybe it will help you.

[Divine Insight]

And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. (II Kings 2:23-24 KJV)

Some of the stories that got into the biblical cannon had to be like nursery rhymes meant to be a moral story for little children, like "The Three Little Pigs", or "Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf".

Otherwise Christians would have to face the fact that their "LORD" Jesus Christ sics bears on little children for making fun of a bald head.

How anyone can take the biblical cannon of fables seriously is beyond me.

There is nothing in the context to indicate this is intended as a nursery story for children. Incidentally, this is from the Old Testament, so the Lord referred to here is Jesus' father, the primitive tribal wargod we all know and love. In any case, I learned it in Sunday School, where some of the more precocious "students" taught us the admonishment "Don't f*ck with God, or bears will eat you!"

I'm in total agreement with you actually John Paul.

Jesus rejected the teachings of the God of the Old Testament. There's no way that Jesus could have had anything at all to do with that God. He couldn't have been the son of that God, and he most certainly wasn't that God incarnate.

However, many Christians hold that Jesus is "God". He's mere merely the "son of God" because they are supposed to be a monotheistic religion that worships the "Holy Trinity", - The Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being One Entity with three faces.

So in that sense they can't really have Jesus being a separate God lest he become a mere demigod. And their religion become polytheistic like the Greeks.

So they really have no choice to to proclaim that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnated. Consider the following:

1. The original God was "The Word".
2. Jesus is said to be "The Word made flesh".
3. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM".
4. Jesus said, "The Father and I are one"
5. They claim that Jesus is LORD, and anywhere the term LORD is written even in the Old Testament is actually refers to Jesus, even though he had not yet been made flesh.

Of course all so-called "Christians" don't agree with these interpretations because Christianity has no coherent substance. Christianity means totally different things to different people and has no consistency or intelligible meaning. It's a totally ambiguous fairytale that can mean whatever a person would like to twist it into.

But as I have said, based on the things I've listed above many people claim that Jesus has always been around from the very beginning and he was always the "LORD" there was never a time when he was not the "LORD".

So in that context it would have been Jesus doing all the nasty crap that the God of Abraham had done because remember the trinty - Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one entity. It's supposed to be a monotheistic religion remember?

If you split the trinity apart into separate "Gods" then you've got polytheism which would basically amount to nothing more than just another Greek mythology repeated in Hebrew mythology.

So Christians who believe that there is only ONE God really have no choice but to accept that Jesus and the God of Abraham are that ONE God and always were even during the times of the Old Testament.

Those who believe that Jesus actually came into being when he was born of the virgin Mary would have no choice but to accept that Jesus was a mere demigod. A SECOND God born from the union of the first God and a mortal woman Mary.

Jesus would be a demigod in that case.

~~~~

But yes, I agree with you that Jesus could not have been the God of Abraham. He didn't even agree with the teachings of that God. He rejected the teachings of that God. He renounced the commandments of the God of Abraham that we should judge each other and stone sinners and heathens to death. Instead he taught like Buddha that we should not judge others, hold grudges, or seek revenge.

Jesus also renounced the seeking of revenge as in "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", which was again the directive of the God of Abraham. And instead Jesus taught forgiveness and to turn the other cheek like Buddha taught.

So Jesus was far more in agreement with Buddha than he was with the God of Abraham. There's no way he could have been affiliated with the God of Abraham in anyway. He totally rejected the things that God stood for.

But like I say, for those who need for Jesus to be the Son of the God of Abraham, they're stuck with all those contradictions and inconsistencies. They really have very little choice but to acknowledge that their "single monotheistic God" would need to be a schizophrenic nut case.

And Jesus would need to be just as disgusting as the God of Abraham. They do not like that idea at all.

In fact, the reason why most Christians love Jesus so much is precisely because he stood up against the God of Abraham and spit in the face of the God of Abraham by renouncing the ignorant sick directives of the God of Abraham and replaced them with the wisdom and love of the Buddha.

[Divine Insight]

You mentioned the kids and the she bears and prophet a few times. Those kids sought of did like you are doing. They were in essences mocking God’s prophet, God’s message and God.

And this is yet another example where Jesus did not agree with the God of Abraham.

According to the New Testament rumors, Jesus asked God the Father to forgive those who mocked him, claiming that they "know not what they do".

Well surely little children mocking some guy for being bald would qualify as "knowing not what they do".

After all how could such mockery have hurt the prophet? All it could have bruised would have been his fragile ego. And shouldn't a prophet or saint be above that?

A truly wise sage would have just had a belly laugh and probably played with the kids for a while before finally leaving with his bald head.

How you can support such obvious ignorance as being representative of the "Word of God" is beyond me.

You post gibberish form the Bible like as if it's supposed to be meaningful, but most of that gibberish is just as foolish as the story of the bald prophet. It was written by people like you, who can't see past the ignorance of these absurd stories.

You keep attempting to support them, but all you do is dig yourself deeper and deeper into the absurdities.

Like I said, people were mocking Jesus. Physically beating him, denying his authority, nailing him to a pole and stripping him of his clothing. And what did he do according to these rumors? He said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Clearly Jesus was far wiser than the bald-headed guy.

Moreover, since you seem to like verses from these fables so much consider the following:


John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Luke.23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


Well, if what John and Luke say here are TRUE, then everything that you've been preaching is for not, because you're preaching against the words of Jesus.

According to these fables, Jesus forgives people for mocking him if they simply know not what they do. (and that would certainly include ALL non-believers).

And if you can believe John's Gospel, then Jesus is the final judge and he's clearly stated that he will indeed forgive people if they merely don't know what they do. And all non-believers would qualify as not "knowing what they are doing" if they don't believe in Jesus.

After all, they can hardly purposefully disobey some authority that they don't recognize.

So you keep preaching against the words of Jesus.

So you're blaspheming against Jesus more than anyone.

And obviously you don't have a clue that you're doing it. Thus you'll probably be forgiven for not knowing what you're doing too.

In fact, as outrageously ambiguous and confused that Christianity has become, even among those who would like to believe it, everyone would qualify as not knowing what they are doing from the most devout clergy to the most vociferous atheists.

In short, no judgement would even be required anymore because Jesus would have to forgive everyone for not knowing what they are doing.

At least certainly in terms of charges of "blaspheme".

Like I say, you're blaspheming against Jesus all the time by proclaiming how you think he would judge people. The Bible can't even be used to support your judgements.

Jesus forgives people for not knowing what they do.

It's right there in the New Testament Gossips.

If you claim otherwise then you blaspheme against the WORD of Jesus.

And now you know, so if you continue to do it you will no longer qualify for not knowing what you are doing.

You better put the Bible down and let Jesus be the judge of others. Because if you continue to judge others in Jesus' name using the Bible you could potentially get yourself in very hot water with Jesus.

He forgives people for not knowing what they do. And that was his FINAL WORD on the cross with his last breath.

And you're going to argue with Jesus' last words?

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes come judgement day!

[Divine Insight]

Is there any middle ground between the actions that can be considered supernatural witchcraft and the faiths that directly forbid it, what exactly is forbidden and why?

Getting back to the original question before the preacher stepped in, the only religions that would forbid Witchcraft would be the Abrahamic religions insofar as I know.

And as I have already pointed out earlier Christianity would be an exception because Jesus himself was supposedly performing supernatural witchcraft, and his very own excuse when confronted by the Pharisees was to proclaim that good works cannot be done using evil powers.

Therefore as long a witch is only using supernatural powers to do good works they would then be in perfect harmony with Jesus, because by his own argument good works can only come from God. Therefore witches who do good works are necessarily divine vessels of God just like Jesus supposedly was.

So Christianity cannot be use to object to witchcraft that is used for good works.

It can only be used to object to witchcraft that is being used for evil purposes.

As long as you use supernatural powers for good works you are necessarily in harmony with Jesus by his own proclamation according to the Gossips.

Anyone who says otherwise is rebuking the words of Jesus.

[Serpent Oracle]

Heb 10 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.� And again, “The Lord will judge his people.� 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Finally, look at 2 Peter 2 This shows me everything, but I won’t quote it. You can look it up yourself; maybe it will help you.

Why don't you save your preaching for those who want to read it?

None of us wish to read such laughable drivel...

Please try and stick to the topic in hand...

[Suluby]

False Christianity consists of mostly cults. But true Christianity is not about religion.

It's a funny thing I've noticed. Every Christian says that only what they believe is the "true" Christianity, and that what all the other Christians believe is false Christianity - a cult. They think the same thing about YOU!

You've seen the definition of religion. You may want to deny it, but Christianity is a religion.

There are many people who make religion their God such as people with a religious spirit. If you feel I am evasive and it is like nailing a frog to the wall or irrational, don't post back. Your self righteous comments make you right in your own eyes. You are one that has no fear of God. The Bible states that "The fear of God is the begining of wisdom."

It is also written that the preaching of the cross is to those that perish foolishness, but to us that are being saved it is the power of God. WADR, as far as witchcraft and its paranormal manifestations, I rebuke it all in Jesus name and casts to hell as you read may God open your eyes!

What does WADR mean?

I think it is quite humorous that on a thread about witchcraft, you are spellcasting! There is a delicious irony in that!

By the way, IMO, if my belief were as irrational as you say, it wouldn't get to you like this! If you respond back rude again, I won't post back to you! There is no reason for it.

Hmm ..... sure. Okay.

I didn't cast a spell. I am no witch and never will be. WADR= with all due respect!

Thanks for the explanation of WADR - I'd never seen it before.

Rebuking ... casting into hell ..... that's a binding spell you've cast.

Binding Spells
Binding spells are the most serious magick that a Witch can cast. Bindings can come in many different forms. The most common are cord bindings. Bindings can be either permanent or temporary. Both forms of binding spells are considered bad magick. This is because their sole purpose is to remove the free will of the target. This is nothing more than slavery. Most Witches agree that binding spells should be a last resort if used at all. A great deal of thought should be put in before doing a binding. Try thinking of all other possible solutions.http://hearthwitch.tripod.com/bindings.html

Funny how often Christians cast binding spells! You've got to be careful - the bad or good karma you send out will return to you ..... threefold, some say. That's in your bible, too ..... Galatians, IIRC.

But I am binding only what is not of God in Jesus' name. I fear no spells from witches nor karma. If anyone puts a curse on me, it will come in contact with a supernatural reflecting mirror for I am not perfect, but I am a child of God.

So you admit to casting a binding spell! You're just doing it Jesus' name.

Do you realize that every human being is a child of G-d .... every male a son and every female a daughter.

Karma is just having to deal with the consequences of one's actions. Your belief in Jesus will not protect you from that.

There's no weapon formed against me that shall prosper. Demons and evil spirits are what I rebuke. They only have power to do stupid magick like make things fall and noise to a Christian. They have power to curse nonbelievers or those that fear.

LOL For one so sure, methinks thou dost protest too much!

If you did not fear - greatly - you wouldn't need to cast a binding spell in Jesus' name.

Greater is He in me than Him that is in the world. Perfect love casts out all fear. Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee for he trusted in thee! I can be spiritually violent./ It is written the violent taketh by force. Don't twist my words here. I said spiritually violent!

Okay ..... sure.

Just calm down. No one is out to get you.

You perceive danger and react in a verbally violent manner without cause.


.

[Serpent Oracle]

So Christianity cannot be use to object to witchcraft that is used for good works.

It can only be used to object to witchcraft that is being used for evil purposes.

Evil?

What is Evil?

My intents purposes may seem evil to some, to others wholly good and admirable...

Good and Evil are delusions, its all relative.

Sorry...just had to stick that in.

[Serpent Oracle]

Just calm down. No one is out to get you.

You perceive danger and react in a verbally violent manner without cause.

Another symptom of egotism, thinking you are 'special' or important enough to warrant executing a supernatural attack upon...perhaps.

Or maybe the mistaken concept that witches sit about brooding over how to harm the precious Christians?
We gots better things to do...

What that would achieve I don't know...its not Christians I have problems with personally...indeed most of my family are Christians...anyone hurts them because they are Christian or whatever has me to deal with certainly and I prefer more direct methods of correction as opposed to putting the Evil Eye (a Hex/Curse) on someone, not that I have tried.

No its Christianity I take issue with...