When God knows a soul goes to hell..

[sin_is_fun]

When God knows a soul is going to go to hell ,why does he still create that soul?Why create that soul ,judge it later and send it to eternal hell?Stopping creation of such souls seems to be a better option.Why does God create souls knowing fully well that it will land up in eternal hell?

[Bugmaster]

Being personable (yet not a person) means that there is an aspect of God that is capable of being presented to us as a person. For example, if we pray to God, and God provides a clear answer to our prayer, we feel understood, perhaps even deeply touched by the answer. This doesn't mean that God is a person, it only means that God can be personable.

I would argue that "being personable" and "being a person" are the same thing; i.e., if God passes the Turing Test, then he's a person for all intents and purposes. However, I don't think the current gods we have would pass the Turing Test -- none of them respond to prayer with clear, conclusive answers... except maybe the legendary pagan gods (Wicca, Voodo, etc.), but they're quite different from your God concept.

I think mystical experiences can be events such as this. I've only had one such experience, so all I can say is that if that is what heaven is like, then I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised on awaits us after this fleshly experience.

The problem is that mystical experiences cannot be communicated, until we develop telepathy of some sort. Thus, until I have a revelation of my own, I can't accept the truth of mystical experiences.

Once I was pondering what God would say about a certain situation that I had encountered, and I was deep into that particular thought (parked in front of a store), a particular message on an LED display lit up with a sentence that perfectly answered the question...

This is an interesting observation, but I think you missed my point. I was saying that your notion of Ascension -- humans becoming Gods -- goes against the mainstream Biblical teachings, which tell us that humans should be humble before the face of God, and that striving for Godhood is one of the worst possible sins.

It's hard for me to reply since I'm not sure what you might have in mind. From my perspective and all I know of Christian scriptures, my view is entirely consistent with a few modern New Testament interpretations.

Very briefly, Gnostics believe that the material world is all an illusion (created by a stunted, corrupt entity known as The Demiurge), and that the only real things are the sparks of the divine essence within each human being. If a human beings comes to fully realize the illusory nature of the world, he will be able to merge his divine self with the real celestial beings out there. If he cannot realize this, he's doomed to suffer the material existence over an over -- not as a punishment, but simply as an unfortunate consequence of being a divine spark trapped in the material body. Richard Bach's book Illusions: Adventures of the Reluctant Messiah presents this view in more detail; the movie The Matrix does this as well. This view was popularized by ancient religious sects known as the Gnostics (from the greek "gnosis", meaning "knowledge"). Ye olde Christians spent quite a few resources on wiping the Gnostics (and their intellectual cousins, the Cathars) off the face of the Earth.

I'm not saying that your views conform 100% to the Gnostic doctrine, but they're definitely closer to Gnosticism than to Christianity.

Firstly, how can you be sure you're really connecting with God's consciousness, and not just hallucinating, or exploring your own inner consciousness (or both) ?

One can never be sure if the clock thing was a mere coincidence...

So, wouldn't it be more parsimonious to believe that your religious experiences are mere illusions, brought on by purely physical (or, rather, biological) causes ?

[unicorn]

Bugmaster:

So far, I've pointed out several flaws in your reasoning and your assumptions,...

You have given opinions stating that you don't agree with me, but no concreted reasons why. That is not a flaw in my reasoning, but one in yours, or at least, a flaw in your understanding.

[Bugmaster]

You have given opinions stating that you don't agree with me, but no concreted reasons why. That is not a flaw in my reasoning, but one in yours, or at least, a flaw in your understanding.

Here are some snippets from our past conversations:

He creates a soul with the possilbility of a future...we chose to accept it or not.

So, God does not know in advance what we'll choose ?

2)To expand on the first explanation: when Jesus died on the cross--He died for EVERYONE. EVERYONE'S sins are forgiven before they are born (so, no one is born "doomed"). Again, it is our choice to accept that gift or not.

Wait, so everyone is forgiven, and thus, no one goes to hell ?

Actually, the bible is scientifically accurate. It is also the most historically accurate document in existence today. Furthermore, it is confirmed by other historical writings and archeology.

Can you list some passages in the bible, and the corresponding scientific facts that they refer to ? Something like this:

Revelations X:Y -- Newton's First Law
Luke X:Y -- Scroedinger Equation
Matthew X:Y -- Boyle's Law

I personally can't think of any passages in the Bible that come even remotely close to something like "K=(mV^2)/2", but maybe I've missed some.

:lol: I think you have! I'll tell you what, I'll give you one (and since you seem to be implying that you are so familiar with the bible) I am going to let you figure it out: the theory of relativity. There are so many more! Happy searching!

Sorry unicorn, I'll have to hold your hooves to the fire on this one.

You have made a fairly extraordinary claim: that the Bible is scientific. I challenged you to back up your claim, by providing specific passages in the Bible, and the corresponding scientific facts they describe. You didn't do this.

I am completely serious. The theory of relativity is supported by the bible--the entire bible. If someone doesn't understand, they can ask and I will explain.

Ok, I'll bite. Explain.

Specifically, I'd like to see the Biblical passages that refer to the following...

http://www.dyeager.org/articles/frames.php

That article says that the following line in the Bible is equivalent to the theory of relativity:

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day (2 Peter 3:8 NKJV).

I just don't see the resemblance. The theory of relativity makes some very specific statements about time, mass, distance, and the speed of light. These statements are expressed in mathematics (as the article you linked to points out); it makes specific predictions that can be observed and measured...

Bugmaster:

I just don't see the resemblance.

:? Really. Well, I can't make you understand. Maybe you should go back and read the article again. Funny, I thought it was quite clear!

I don't think your conclusion that the Bible contains the theory of relativity is justified at all.

Probably because you don't understand the concept. Again, all I can say is "keep trying." :D

So far, you haven't answered any of my questions in a satisfactory manner. I think you may be confused about my use of language -- understandable, since I'm not a great author by any means. When I say, "but what about X ?", or "I am not entirely convinced of Y because of U, V, and W", what I really mean is, "I require more evidence or logical backing for your beliefs before I can accept them". I'm not just asking questions for the fun of it.

[unicorn]

Bugmaster:

I think I have to apologize to you. I have been kind of mean in my responses to your questions. I posted further articles for others, but for some reason, not for you. I don't know if I forgot about you or if I felt that prompting you to continue in your efforts to understand was better for you at that time.

Anyways, maybe you would like to review the articles I posted for McCulloch. Under the Big Bang thread I started are further articles which mention the theory of relativity and the bible. I think the articles can explain this issue better than I.

I'm sorry, my friend.

[lifeisboring]

When God knows a soul is going to go to hell ,why does he still create that soul?Why create that soul ,judge it later and send it to eternal hell?Stopping creation of such souls seems to be a better option.Why does God create souls knowing fully well that it will land up in eternal hell?

It all goes down to if you believe in God or not. But it's pretty ironic actually.