The battle for respect: Theistic vs Atheistic

[Confused]

I have read many posts about how the atheist should respect the theists beliefs and not degrade or insult their God in their presence. For example, say you go to the Catholic sponsored carnival, not because you believe in God, but because the proceeds are being donated to the local womens/childrens "safe haven" from battered spouses. While at this carnival, should you be considered "wrong" if you make blanket curses, taking the Lords name in vain, or if you publicly denounce God? On the other side of the spectrum, say you go to a fund raiser being sponsored by the local chapter of Universal Unitarian Foundation in which all sides of the "belief and lack thereof" are represented. Would you be considered "wrong" if you started preaching the truth of God in the presence of a group of atheists?

The question for debate should be clear from the above, but to narrow it down, what is open for debate here:
1) Is it considered disrespectful if an atheist makes comments such as "G#d D#*n it" in a public setting? If so, why?
2) Which side trumps the other? Is it any worse if an atheist makes comments against God or takes His name in vain than if a theist says a prayer in public or thanks God in public?
3) Does either side deserve preferential treatment in regards to respect for their belief?

[Vladd44]

Hypothetically:Take one of each person up on top of a really tall building say 50 + story high.Put a microphone on each person and then push each one off at the same time.And see if both don't just start calling out to God.

This drivel is a perfect example of why I have to work very hard to not consider christians as smart as a fence post. You repeatedly confuse opinion with fact.

What you have written is complete lunacy covered with the odor of self arrogance. You incorrect assumption shows the reactionary foolishness I experience on a regular basis from fairy tale believers.

note there was a camouflaged net they couldn't see at the bottom so as to make the experience genuine.

Which is it? Hypothetical or real? Your grasp of syntax is as lacking as your comprehension of how non theist think. "There was" implies that this hypothetical was actually a reality. "There was" no net if this scenario was only hypothetical.

Your powers of assumption, as with MOST christians is incredible.

[Fallibleone]

Greeting
Hypothetically:Take one of each person up on top of a really tall building say 50 + story high.Put a microphone on each person and then push each one off at the same time.And see if both don't just start calling out to God.

This has nothing to do with respect, but even if we forget that for a moment, it doesn't even have anything to do with belief. Words expelled at the height of panic, in my opinion, prove nothing but the propensity of a human to shout things.

note there was a camouflaged net they couldn't see at the bottom so as to make the experience genuine.

What need is there for a net in a hypothetical?

When put to the test deep down all believes in a higher power.

Here I am, a living, breathing human being. You may wish to read about my experience of being close to death on a different thread. My existence proves you wrong.

Perhaps an rock could qualify as an Atheist in the truest sense of the word but definitely not a living being. God bless.So be it!

Ah well, there is one tiny ray of light in this post. Nope, a rock is definitely not a living being.

[Beto]

I have read many posts about how the atheist should respect the theists beliefs and not degrade or insult their God in their presence. For example, say you go to the Catholic sponsored carnival, not because you believe in God, but because the proceeds are being donated to the local womens/childrens "safe haven" from battered spouses. While at this carnival, should you be considered "wrong" if you make blanket curses, taking the Lords name in vain, or if you publicly denounce God? On the other side of the spectrum, say you go to a fund raiser being sponsored by the local chapter of Universal Unitarian Foundation in which all sides of the "belief and lack thereof" are represented. Would you be considered "wrong" if you started preaching the truth of God in the presence of a group of atheists?

The question for debate should be clear from the above, but to narrow it down, what is open for debate here:
1) Is it considered disrespectful if an atheist makes comments such as "G#d D#*n it" in a public setting? If so, why?
2) Which side trumps the other? Is it any worse if an atheist makes comments against God or takes His name in vain than if a theist says a prayer in public or thanks God in public?
3) Does either side deserve preferential treatment in regards to respect for their belief?

I'll particularize the topic to a Christian theist if I may. How can a Christian, believing an atheist will not be saved, respect the atheist's "belief"? Should he remain indifferent? Is it not his Christian duty to prevent the atheist's damnation?

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." --James 5:19, 20."

Only one position is more than willing to respect the other. And as odd as it may seem, I'm more willing to respect a nagging Christian that actually gives a damn about my soul, than one that doesn't.

[joer]

I'll particularize the topic to a Christian theist if I may. How can a Christian, believing an atheist will not be saved, respect the atheist's "belief"? Should he remain indifferent? Is it not his Christian duty to prevent the atheist's damnation?

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." --James 5:19, 20."

Only one position is more than willing to respect the other. And as odd as it may seem, I'm more willing to respect a nagging Christian that actually gives a damn about my soul, than one that doesn't.

Father Phan, a Catholic Priest currently being investigated by the Catholic Church, as well as Mother teresa have been criticzes for having a more open view of salvation.

The Thing is Father Phan isn't saying Jesus isn't the Truth. He is saying LIVE and BE the Truth that Jesus Taught.

Mother Teresa DID this in Living her life, what Father Phan is suggesting theologically as well. Look at 1 Timothy 2:4 Titus 2:11. It basically says what father Phan said about salvation through God’s saving Grace.
Look at what Mother Teresa said about salvation for other faiths:

- In her book, Life in the Spirit: Reflections, Meditations, and Prayers, "Mother" Teresa says on pp. 81-82:

"We never try to convert those who receive [aid from Missionaries of Charity] to Christianity but in our work we bear witness to the love of God's presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, or agnostics become for this better men -- simply better -- we will be satisfied. It matters to the individual what church he belongs to. If that individual thinks and believes that this is the only way to God for her or him, this is the way God comes into their life -- his life. If he does not know any other way and if he has no doubt so that he does not need to search then this is his way to salvation."

She is also criticized for recognizing atheists with the same respect.

To bad more Christians don't LIVE the TRUTH that Christ taught, instead of preaching damnation to those of other faiths, beliefs or non-religious.

[Confused]

I have read many posts about how the atheist should respect the theists beliefs and not degrade or insult their God in their presence. For example, say you go to the Catholic sponsored carnival, not because you believe in God, but because the proceeds are being donated to the local womens/childrens "safe haven" from battered spouses. While at this carnival, should you be considered "wrong" if you make blanket curses, taking the Lords name in vain, or if you publicly denounce God? On the other side of the spectrum, say you go to a fund raiser being sponsored by the local chapter of Universal Unitarian Foundation in which all sides of the "belief and lack thereof" are represented. Would you be considered "wrong" if you started preaching the truth of God in the presence of a group of atheists?

The question for debate should be clear from the above, but to narrow it down, what is open for debate here:
1) Is it considered disrespectful if an atheist makes comments such as "G#d D#*n it" in a public setting? If so, why?
2) Which side trumps the other? Is it any worse if an atheist makes comments against God or takes His name in vain than if a theist says a prayer in public or thanks God in public?
3) Does either side deserve preferential treatment in regards to respect for their belief?

I'll particularize the topic to a Christian theist if I may. How can a Christian, believing an atheist will not be saved, respect the atheist's "belief"? Should he remain indifferent? Is it not his Christian duty to prevent the atheist's damnation?

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." --James 5:19, 20."

Only one position is more than willing to respect the other. And as odd as it may seem, I'm more willing to respect a nagging Christian that actually gives a damn about my soul, than one that doesn't.

Now, take this and apply it to the OP. Does the nagging Christian have more of a right to verbalize their beliefs to an atheist than an atheist has a right to verbalize their beleifs to Christians? In a social situation, why is it considered disrespectful should an atheist get up on the stage, take their martini (or whathaveyou), and give a toast to humanity while including the opinion of doing this all without a God in the presence of Christians whereas it would be acceptable for someone to toast their success to God in the presence of atheists.

[Beto]

I have read many posts about how the atheist should respect the theists beliefs and not degrade or insult their God in their presence. For example, say you go to the Catholic sponsored carnival, not because you believe in God, but because the proceeds are being donated to the local womens/childrens "safe haven" from battered spouses. While at this carnival, should you be considered "wrong" if you make blanket curses, taking the Lords name in vain, or if you publicly denounce God? On the other side of the spectrum, say you go to a fund raiser being sponsored by the local chapter of Universal Unitarian Foundation in which all sides of the "belief and lack thereof" are represented. Would you be considered "wrong" if you started preaching the truth of God in the presence of a group of atheists?

The question for debate should be clear from the above, but to narrow it down, what is open for debate here:
1) Is it considered disrespectful if an atheist makes comments such as "G#d D#*n it" in a public setting? If so, why?
2) Which side trumps the other? Is it any worse if an atheist makes comments against God or takes His name in vain than if a theist says a prayer in public or thanks God in public?
3) Does either side deserve preferential treatment in regards to respect for their belief?

I'll particularize the topic to a Christian theist if I may. How can a Christian, believing an atheist will not be saved, respect the atheist's "belief"? Should he remain indifferent? Is it not his Christian duty to prevent the atheist's damnation?

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." --James 5:19, 20."

Only one position is more than willing to respect the other. And as odd as it may seem, I'm more willing to respect a nagging Christian that actually gives a damn about my soul, than one that doesn't.

Now, take this and apply it to the OP. Does the nagging Christian have more of a right to verbalize their beliefs to an atheist than an atheist has a right to verbalize their beleifs to Christians? In a social situation, why is it considered disrespectful should an atheist get up on the stage, take their martini (or whathaveyou), and give a toast to humanity while including the opinion of doing this all without a God in the presence of Christians whereas it would be acceptable for someone to toast their success to God in the presence of atheists.

Both have equal rights to verbalize their beliefs. But where they do it is a matter of common sense and good manners. It's just like any other controversial topic. Some people just can't be challenged. That atheist you mention is clearly provoking the Christians, whereas the toast to God is almost automatic, like when we say "thank God" or "God willing" (sometimes even without realizing). If a Christian is surrounded by atheists, common sense dictates he shouldn't offer a toast to God. He has the right to be oblivious of common sense.

[Confused]

Now, take this and apply it to the OP. Does the nagging Christian have more of a right to verbalize their beliefs to an atheist than an atheist has a right to verbalize their beleifs to Christians? In a social situation, why is it considered disrespectful should an atheist get up on the stage, take their martini (or whathaveyou), and give a toast to humanity while including the opinion of doing this all without a God in the presence of Christians whereas it would be acceptable for someone to toast their success to God in the presence of atheists.

Both have equal rights to verbalize their beliefs. But where they do it is a matter of common sense and good manners. It's just like any other controversial topic. Some people just can't be challenged. That atheist you mention is clearly provoking the Christians, whereas the toast to God is almost automatic, like when we say "thank God" or "God willing" (sometimes even without realizing). If a Christian is surrounded by atheists, common sense dictates he shouldn't offer a toast to God. He has the right to be oblivious of common sense.

Why is the atheist clearly provoking Christians? Perhaps, for them, it is a common phrase. I started attending an "organization" called Unitarian Universalists. We have a congregation less than a 45 minute drive from where I live so I am fortunate enough to be able to attend when I am not feeling to sick. I have only attended 2 formal services. One was presented by a Methodist Christian. Another by a self proclaimed "naturalist atheist". I was impressed by both services and the open format for services in these congregations is very ideal for searching for truths using whatever means available to man. Now, when the service was being given by the naturalist, he ended his "sermon" by stating that in the absence of God, mankind still has that light glowing within that gives pride to humanity and the individualistic quality it represents. The Methodist ended his "sermon" by stating that within the context of humanity, God still provides direction for redemption. Now, considering the fact that the UU organization is very diverse and encourages all disciplines of faith, ideology, and beliefs, it stands to reason that there is much dissention amongst the various interpretations of the truth. However, it is clearly stated before each service that the speaker is free to voice any interpretation so long as it is done with respect. So both the speakers I have mentioned still maintained respect for each other despite their clashes on chosen words. I wouldn't consider either of these endings to be disrespecting each other. However, in many places, should a theist offer to pray for an atheist, it is simply washed under the rug, not seen as an insult. Why? Is that not respecting the view of the atheist?

[Beto]

Now, take this and apply it to the OP. Does the nagging Christian have more of a right to verbalize their beliefs to an atheist than an atheist has a right to verbalize their beleifs to Christians? In a social situation, why is it considered disrespectful should an atheist get up on the stage, take their martini (or whathaveyou), and give a toast to humanity while including the opinion of doing this all without a God in the presence of Christians whereas it would be acceptable for someone to toast their success to God in the presence of atheists.

Both have equal rights to verbalize their beliefs. But where they do it is a matter of common sense and good manners. It's just like any other controversial topic. Some people just can't be challenged. That atheist you mention is clearly provoking the Christians, whereas the toast to God is almost automatic, like when we say "thank God" or "God willing" (sometimes even without realizing). If a Christian is surrounded by atheists, common sense dictates he shouldn't offer a toast to God. He has the right to be oblivious of common sense.

Why is the atheist clearly provoking Christians? Perhaps, for them, it is a common phrase. I started attending an "organization" called Unitarian Universalists. We have a congregation less than a 45 minute drive from where I live so I am fortunate enough to be able to attend when I am not feeling to sick. I have only attended 2 formal services. One was presented by a Methodist Christian. Another by a self proclaimed "naturalist atheist". I was impressed by both services and the open format for services in these congregations is very ideal for searching for truths using whatever means available to man. Now, when the service was being given by the naturalist, he ended his "sermon" by stating that in the absence of God, mankind still has that light glowing within that gives pride to humanity and the individualistic quality it represents. The Methodist ended his "sermon" by stating that within the context of humanity, God still provides direction for redemption. Now, considering the fact that the UU organization is very diverse and encourages all disciplines of faith, ideology, and beliefs, it stands to reason that there is much dissention amongst the various interpretations of the truth. However, it is clearly stated before each service that the speaker is free to voice any interpretation so long as it is done with respect. So both the speakers I have mentioned still maintained respect for each other despite their clashes on chosen words. I wouldn't consider either of these endings to be disrespecting each other. However, in many places, should a theist offer to pray for an atheist, it is simply washed under the rug, not seen as an insult. Why? Is that not respecting the view of the atheist?

The issue is delicate at best. If a theist would just ask the atheist "may I offer you a prayer?" the atheist could reply "I wish you wouldn't, for I feel I would be disrespecting your personal choice of being a Christian."

A friend of mine recently asked me to sing at her wedding along with a choir of close friends. I said I'd rather not, because I don't sing Christian chants, for the simple reason that I feel I'm offending their beliefs, not my own. That's how much I respect a person's choice to be a Christian. Some folks around here might feel differently, but that relates to individual attitudes. I have no problem going into a church, but I won't kneel or cross myself, out of respect FOR THEM.

It's the self-righteous attitude of the Christian that prays for the atheist weather he wants it or not, that I find disrespectful. And washing it under the rug is just as bad. It's like stuffing that crappy present in the attic along with the rest of the "junk" you keep getting. That's why I don't like presents, many times it forces people to be hypocritical about their feelings.

How about you? Do you feel either one is disrespectful? Forcing a prayer on the atheist, and "washing it under the rug"?

[Confused]

The issue is delicate at best. If a theist would just ask the atheist "may I offer you a prayer?" the atheist could reply "I wish you wouldn't, for I feel I would be disrespecting your personal choice of being a Christian."

Oh, if only such a world existed.

A friend of mine recently asked me to sing at her wedding along with a choir of close friends. I said I'd rather not, because I don't sing Christian chants, for the simple reason that I feel I'm offending their beliefs, not my own. That's how much I respect a person's choice to be a Christian. Some folks around here might feel differently, but that relates to individual attitudes. I have no problem going into a church, but I won't kneel or cross myself, out of respect FOR THEM.

Are you sure it wasn't just your voice can't carry a tune??? LOL. I am just playing here, don't take it serious please.

On a serious response: I admire your reply. Your level of respect goes both ways and that is a trait not often found. Most would kneel, cross, etc.... because they feel it would be disrespectful not to. You do it because you realize how disrespectful it would be to be decieiving. My compliments on your advanced level of knowledge and respect and even more on your understanding of such knowledge.

It's the self-righteous attitude of the Christian that prays for the atheist weather he wants it or not, that I find disrespectful. And washing it under the rug is just as bad. It's like stuffing that crappy present in the attic along with the rest of the "junk" you keep getting. That's why I don't like presents, many times it forces people to be hypocritical about their feelings.

How about you? Do you feel either one is disrespectful? Forcing a prayer on the atheist, and "washing it under the rug"?

Hmmm, honestly, I will need to think this one over. I have started several responses to it and found that they didn't really answer anything. I will have to get back to you. If I forget, please remind me. I will try to post a message to myself to check this thread out, as a reminder. But I am forgetful.

[Furrowed Brow]

I have no problem going into a church, but I won't kneel or cross myself, out of respect FOR THEM.

Weddings, funerals, and Christenings I do not sing, mouth the prayers, cross myself etc. Because I don't do those things. Not doing these things is part and parcel of my personal identity. I have to say I usally notice one or two others who seem to be acting likewise when at such gatherings.

I'd say I behave like this out of self respect, not respecting others.