"A FLOOD of NONSENSE! - Global Flood or Mass Extinctions?"

[Miles]

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A delightful explanation of why the notion of a global flood---the Noachian Flood---doesn't make any sense.




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Question: Is any of what Forrest Valkai, the host, said, wrong? If so, what and why?


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[Eloi]

Did you know that Moses was the sixth generation from Abraham? So any historical account that Abraham received from his tenth ancestor, Noah, could easily have been received by Moses only a few generations later.

Actually, since the Bible is a collection of historical records subsequent to one another, it is very easy to understand why in Jesus' day Jews still believed the account of the creation of Adam and Eve. For them the generational issue was very important. Their genealogical ancestors determined their role in their worship of the Creator and many other legal matters concerning family rights such as marriages, inheritances, family territories, etc.

The Bible is not like The Arabian Nights...it is a collection of actual records passed down from one generation to the next...and thank God who inspired them, allowed us to access them in our day. How magnificent our Creator!!!!

When Moses wrote the Pentateuch, there were already written or oral historical records about his family's past and antediluvian events. Moses did not invent anything he wrote in the first chapters of Genesis.

In fact, there are genealogies that go back through the time of the Flood all the way back to Adam. In fact, there are non-Jewish records that speak of pre-Flood generations with kings. Interesting, right?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Eloi in post #16]

We got records dating from humans' creation.

Indeed we do, it's called the fossil record which shows that humans (Homo sapiens) evolved from a great ape ancestor. And we now have genetics work (or records) to confirm it.

It is called Biblical records.

It's possible that because 'record' is a word used in both statement that you are confused and think that they are the same thing.

Biblical records, as you used the term are actually stories in a book promoting a religion called the Bible.
The fossil record: "The fossil record is a collection of fossils documenting the history of life on Earth. These fossils can teach us about an extinct organism's size, shape, and/or behavior."
(Notice that the fossils are real. If we only had stories about fossils, then I would be the confused party I admit).

Only one of these is an actual record. You're confusing 'stories' for 'records' it seems and that would explain why you believe these stories. As they say though, you made your bed and you need to sleep in it.

If you feel I'm wrong about the fossil record and that it is nothing more than a story like we read in the Bible, please elucidate for me.

[Eloi]

... there isn't nearly enough water on Earth to cover the entire planet to the tops of the highest mountains (as described in Genesis). This alone torpedoes the entire myth ... there is no source for all the water that is needed and you can find examples of the calculations all over the web, including some by religious people who realize the story is just that .. a story.

https://reasons.org/explore/publication ... y-possible

From the article:

"Without limiting what God can do, it seems more prudent to recognize that the Bible describes a flood that judged all humanity but did not cover the entire globe."

It didn't happen.

About this, to be nice I can think in some factors without going too deep on it:

1) ice on earth
2) groundwater
3) the relatively constant amount of water evaporated into the atmosphere

... maybe the calculations are not that exact as some think.

We don't just believe based on faith.

[Eloi]

Did you know that there are scientists who recognize that the cradle of modern civilization was in the area where the Bible says that the first descendants of Noah settled, near Sumer?

[Clownboat]

Did you know that Moses was the sixth generation from Abraham? So any historical account that Abraham received from his tenth ancestor, Noah, could easily have been received by Moses only a few generations later.

Actually, since the Bible is a collection of historical records subsequent to one another, it is very easy to understand why in Jesus' day Jews still believed the account of the creation of Adam and Eve. For them the generational issue was very important. Their genealogical ancestors determined their role in their worship of the Creator and many other legal matters concerning family rights such as marriages, inheritances, family territories, etc.

The Bible is not like The Arabian Nights...it is a collection of actual records passed down from one generation to the next...and thank God who inspired them, allowed us to access them in our day. How magnificent our Creator!!!!

When Moses wrote the Pentateuch, there were already written or oral historical records about his family's past and antediluvian events. Moses did not invent anything he wrote in the first chapters of Genesis.

In fact, there are genealogies that go back through the time of the Flood all the way back to Adam. In fact, there are non-Jewish records that speak of pre-Flood generations with kings. Interesting, right?

It is only interesting to someone that finds stories about floods to be interesting.
What would be interesting, would be evidence for a global flood and not pointing to stories and alleged genealogies in a book promoting a religion.

Want to prove a global flood happened in the recent history? Just find a rabbit in the Cambrian period or some such fossil that is out of place as would obviously happen if the global flood story in the Bible was an actual record of an event that took place and not just another religious story.

Why are there no human fossils found when all these other fossils were placed by this global flood? That would be irrefutable proof that the story is a record, but we don't have that do we, just faith claims by people that are proud of the religion they have chosen to join.

That is not an impressive reason for belief as you surely agree... when it comes to people that believe in competing religions that is. For you... it is good enough though it seems and I find this strange and illogical.

[Eloi]

Did you know that linguists recognize that all languages converge in one single language that must have originated all the others, and that this language was where the first post-Flood generation of humans settled?

[Clownboat]

Did you know that there are scientists who recognize that the cradle of modern civilization was in the area where the Bible says that the first descendants of Noah settled, near Sumer?

Civilization had to happen somewhere. I feel sorry for you if you think that is evidence for a global flood though.

If the earth was flooded, why did the Egyptians, Chinese and Incan's not notice?
Where is the evidence that the great pyramid or sphinx was under water for example? How did saltwater fish survive? How did freshwater fish survive? Where did all the water go? The list goes on and on....

Just be honest and admit that you believe the story because it is in the Bible and not because there is evidence that the story is a record of an event that took place. Being honest about it won't stop you from using faith as the mechanism for believing the Biblical story. So you don't lose anything by being honest about it.

[Clownboat]

Did you know that linguists recognize that all languages converge in one single language that must have originated all the others,

and that this language was where the first post-Flood generation of humans settled?

See your claim in bold above? Please show that you speak the truth and are not out to deceive us.

[Eloi]

Did you know that the first and oldest known human civilizations are already sufficiently developed with language, cities, commerce, political administration and everything that an organized community entails?

There is nothing in the fossils to show that these civilizations, which only date back to 4 millennia BC, have evolved from communities with anything less than what they already had. The reality is that humanity already appears civilized and intelligent from the 4th millennium BC and there is no "evolution" that has suddenly led any animal community to this development.

Human evolution is a myth. It didn't happen in the real life

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Eloi in post #23]

About this, to be nice I can think in some factors without going too deep on it:

1) ice on earth
2) groundwater
3) the relatively constant amount of water evaporated into the atmosphere

... maybe the calculations are not that exact as some think.

And yet again, you're not running the numbers and just making generic, handwaving statements. Here are some actual numbers for you that aren't picked out of thin air. Using your numbering above:

1) We can measure the amount of ice in the polar regions and in glaciers these days to good accuracy ... certainly good enough to put a decent number on how much sea levels would rise if it all melted. The answer is about 70 meters. Mt Everest is 8,849 meters above sea level. Melting all of the ice on Earth gets you to only 0.8% to the top of Everest. Strike 1.

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-would-sea ... ers-melted

2) Groundwater is under the surface, so it contributes zero to any additional water above the surface that could reach the top of the highest mountains. But even if all the known groundwater somehow magically rose to the surface and was not backfilled by dirt falling into its place (which would happen of course), then you're still not even close. Groundwater makes up only about 1.7% of Earths water (see table in link below) and gets you only about another 70 meters up Everest. Strike 2.

https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/wat ... here-earth

3) The total amount of water in the Earth's atmosphere, if condensed to liquid on the surface, is measured in centimeters and represents only about 0.001% of Earth's water (table in above link). It is nothing. Strike 3.

We don't just believe based on faith.

Clearly you do.