Salvation in Christianity

[msmcneal]

There are two differing views of salvation in Christianity:

1. Salvation is an instantaneous event, which takes place at the "new birth".
2. Salvation is a process, that isn't fully achieved until one is in heaven.

Now, even the NIV study Bible's notes admits that the Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tenses. An answer to these two cotradictory views of salvation is also important to the idea of whether or not works are necessary for salvation.

Questions: Which view of salvation is found more in the Bible? How does this play a role in good works? And how does this affect whether or not one can lose their salvation?

Now, the Bible supports ALL of these views, which is why they have been debated in Christianity since it's inception. So I'm not interested in why one particular view ISN'T in the Bible, because they all are. I'm interested in each individual Christian's views on the subject, what they believe about it, and why.

[Amos]

There are two differing views of salvation in Christianity:

1. Salvation is an instantaneous event, which takes place at the "new birth".
2. Salvation is a process, that isn't fully achieved until one is in heaven.

Now, even the NIV study Bible's notes admits that the Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tenses. An answer to these two cotradictory views of salvation is also important to the idea of whether or not works are necessary for salvation.

Questions: Which view of salvation is found more in the Bible? How does this play a role in good works? And how does this affect whether or not one can lose their salvation?

Now, the Bible supports ALL of these views, which is why they have been debated in Christianity since it's inception. So I'm not interested in why one particular view ISN'T in the Bible, because they all are. I'm interested in each individual Christian's views on the subject, what they believe about it, and why.

I wonder why you care to ask the question. You have stated that you don't believe the Bible is the word of God. You reject up front the idea that maybe you are mistaken about what the Bible teaches concerning salvation. Why bother to ask the question? Shouldn't you be in the apologetics forum instead of arguing theology and dogma?

But in regards to the questions you have asked, I would invite you to read what God said to Joshua in Joshua 6:2 - "And the Lord said to Joshua, "See! I have given (emphasis mine, AWL) Jericho into your hand, its king, and the mighty men of valor."" The Lord then tells Joshua what to do in order to take Jericho. Did Joshua already have Jericho in his hand when the Lord told him he did, or did he have the promise of having Jericho in his hand, contingent on whether or not he and Israel did what God had commanded them to do?

The same is true of salvation. Obviously we don't have it yet, because we are not in heaven in the presence of God. What we have is the promise of salvation if we will do what God has told us to do to receive salvation steadfast to the end (Hebrews 3:12-14).

You are mistaken to state that the Bible teaches instantaneous salvation.

[I AM ALL I AM]

There are two differing views of salvation in Christianity:

1. Salvation is an instantaneous event, which takes place at the "new birth".
2. Salvation is a process, that isn't fully achieved until one is in heaven.

Now, even the NIV study Bible's notes admits that the Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tenses. An answer to these two cotradictory views of salvation is also important to the idea of whether or not works are necessary for salvation.

Questions: Which view of salvation is found more in the Bible? How does this play a role in good works? And how does this affect whether or not one can lose their salvation?

Now, the Bible supports ALL of these views, which is why they have been debated in Christianity since it's inception. So I'm not interested in why one particular view ISN'T in the Bible, because they all are. I'm interested in each individual Christian's views on the subject, what they believe about it, and why.

Are we saved through works ?

* Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

* Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

* Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

vs

* James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

* Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."

G'day Msmcneal.

The bible is definitely full of contradictions and the question of 'salvation' is one of many that those contradictions can easily be shown.

@ Amos - there are contradictory statements made in the bible about being saved by works.

How is it that you claim one 'side' above the other in your own personal belief about what constitutes what is 'necessary' to obtain 'salvation' ???

[Amos]

Are we saved through works ?

* Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

* Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

* Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

vs

* James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

* Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."

G'day Msmcneal.

The bible is definitely full of contradictions and the question of 'salvation' is one of many that those contradictions can easily be shown.

@ Amos - there are contradictory statements made in the bible about being saved by works.

How is it that you claim one 'side' above the other in your own personal belief about what constitutes what is 'necessary' to obtain 'salvation' ???

Hello, I AM ALL I AM. I answered this question in another thread, so I have copied and pasted that answer here with a couple of extra comments thrown in for good measure:

The doctrine of salvation by "faith alone" is nowhere to be found in Paul's writings. It is a big leap from salvation by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8) to salvation by "faith alone."

The same Spirit that inspired Paul to write that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works, inspired James to write "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) Is our God scizophrenic, or might different kinds of works be under consideration?

When we differentiate between works of the Law of Moses (Romans contrasts the Law of Moses and the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus (faith)), works of merit devised by man (Ephesians 2:9) and works commanded by God (the conditions which must be met to receive the grace God has extended to us, Hebrews 5:9, Ephesians 2:10), it is no problem to reconcile or rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). There is no contradiction when this is understood.

For those who believe in salvation by "faith alone," I have a question: Do you read passages that teach repentance (Acts 17:30) and assume we are saved by "repentance alone?" Or how about passages that teach confession (Romans 10:10)? Do you assume "confession alone" saves us? If not, then why do you do that with passages that teach the essentiality of faith?

If any work of obedience to God nullifies the grace of God, then faith itself nullifies the grace of God, for it is a work (John 6:29)!

The Ephesians whom Paul said had been saved by grace through faith (2:8) had heard and believed the word of truth (1:13), had repented of their sins (2:1-3) and had been baptized in the name of Christ (Acts 19:1-5). That's slightly more than "faith alone."

I hope this is helpful.