144,000= Christians zealous for God; others will be tortured

[holyisthelord]

the 144,000: Christians zealous for God; pray hard to be one of them

the 144,000 who are sealed in Revelation 7 are "spiritual Israel," not ethnic Jews, who are said by Jesus to be of the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2,3):
-"The real Jew" is the person who is "circumcized in the heart" (Romans 2:28)
-Christians are children of "the heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4), which represents the "city" (association) of true Christians.

Israel means "has prevailed with God" [in gaining the "blessing" of eternal life which Jacob/Israel strove with Jesus "the angel of the LORD" for in Genesis 32]

The 144,000 correspond to members of the Church of Philadelphia & Smyrna, the only two of the seven churches (which represents all people professing to be Christians today, throughout history, and in John's day) not rebuked by Jesus in Revelation 2-3 and threatened to be "cast" into terrible "Tribulation".

If you are not one of these 144,000 people because you are "lukewarm" for God & fellow humans (Rev. 3:15), you will have to suffer the immense pains described in Revelation & the rest of the Bible (ex. the plagues of Exodus) as a taste of Hell, so that you will depart from sin since "the fear of the LORD causes a man to depart from evil." God says "those whom I love, I discipline." (Rev. 3, Hebrews 12)

"Pray at all times that you will be worthy to escape these things" (Luke 21) which "are about to come upon the whole habitable Earth" (Rev. 3:10) during the Great Tribulation.

"The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:6) We often have to interpret the Bible metaphorically (not by "the letter"), and can only do so correctly by praying for the Holy Spirit's enlightenment.

Debate Question: Who are the 144,000?

[Nilloc James]

Another question: When there are millions of christains how can a god chose that few and not be malovant?

[Nameless]

12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel = 144,000.
It makes sense, therefore, that Xtians interpret and re-interpret until there's room for them, too.
'Revelations' is a poetic crock o' $h!t anyway...

[McCulloch]

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[cnorman18]

We often have to interpret the Bible metaphorically (not by "the letter"), and can only do so correctly by praying for the Holy Spirit's enlightenment.

Is your metaphorical interpretation the only one admissible, or might someone else's possibly be correct?

[OnceConvinced]

Well I figure what's the point in trying to be amongst that 144,000? Millions and millions of people have lived on this earth striving to please God. Hundreds of thousands have done greater works than I can ever hope to achieve and have had more impressive faith than I'm ever likely to be able to muster. So thanks, but no thanks, I'm not gonna waste my life trying to be one of the few when the chances of me getting in there are about as good as winning millions of dollars in a lottery. Perhaps less.

[sorrowtojoy]

pray hard? pray hard?!?

when did praying hard become a requirement for salvation?

all God requires from me is perfection... which is something I cannot give.

[InTheFlesh]

pray hard? pray hard?!?

when did praying hard become a requirement for salvation?

all God requires from me is perfection... which is something I cannot give.

God requires us to believe.
He will perfect us later!

[Cathar1950]

I have read that Revelations started out as Hebrew writings and possibly was used by followers of John the Baptist and was later adopted and reworked for Jesus people over time.
I believe the 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel = 144,000 are also virgins. So not just any Jew will do.
I always thought that anti-Semites would love the idea of only 144,000 Jews would be left or saved. Like much of Revelation it is symbolic.

[cnorman18]

I ask again; are these detailed and specific interpretations the only ones possible? If not, why are others not at least as likely as this one?

How can anyone claim to know the one true meaning of Revelation in the kind of detail shown here? That book is couched in symbolism and metaphor so obscure as to render it entirely opaque. Who says THIS reading is the right one?

If anyone is going to tell me that he was guided to this understanding by the Holy Spirit, don't bother; such a claim is absolutely unprovable and meaningless. I have no way to know you aren't either delusional or simply arrogant.

There have been thousands of other pious and sincere people who were apparently guided by fake Holy Spirits to other interpretations which were, according to those who subscribe to this one, false and therefore Satanic. Perhaps someone can explain that - without invoking their own supposedly superior spirituality, guidance and blessedness, for which there is no proof either.