Secular schools destroy morality.

[FinalEnigma]

Well, Zyzzx, for the last 40 years we've seen some real fine examples of your humanism as work. The schools have become war zones and morality has been flushed down the PC toilets. Congratulations on your religion free Utopian wasteland. LOL!!!

Easyrider claims that humanism destroy a countries morality through the school system. can it be shown that humanism is the cause of a decline in morality in one of the most christian countries in the world?

questions for debate:
Is there a decline in morality in america?

If so, is it a result of the school system?

If so, is the decline of the school system a result of secular humanism?

[McCulloch]

Is there a decline in morality in america?

No.

One hundred and fifty years ago, many Americans justified slavery on moral grounds. Now it is not acceptable to suggest that slavery is a morally good idea. One hundred years ago, women were denied rights that would now be considered immoral. Fifty years ago, the wholesale indiscriminate bombing of civilians in war was justified by American leaders. This is now not considered a moral option.

In the long run, it appears to me that morality has been improving in America.

[4gold]

questions for debate:
Is there a decline in morality in america?

Yes.

If so, is it a result of the school system? If so, is the decline of the school system a result of secular humanism?

In small part, yes to both. But I think the original quoter overstates the role of secular schools in the decline of morality. Secular schools sometimes cause immorality, but these are the exception, not the rule.

[FinalEnigma]

questions for debate:
Is there a decline in morality in america?

Yes.

Can you show evidence of such a decline in morality? as exampled by McC, morality appears to be on the rise. And I would caution you to remember, nearly everybody thinks their era is either the worst, or the best, usually depending on whether they are an average citizen or a person in power.

If so, is it a result of the school system? If so, is the decline of the school system a result of secular humanism?

In small part, yes to both. But I think the original quoter overstates the role of secular schools in the decline of morality. Secular schools sometimes cause immorality, but these are the exception, not the rule.[/quote]
I'll buy that a decline in morality could be caused by a decline in the school system, now I would ask that you show that secular humanism causes a decline in the school system.

[4gold]

Can you show evidence of such a decline in morality? as exampled by McC, morality appears to be on the rise. And I would caution you to remember, nearly everybody thinks their era is either the worst, or the best, usually depending on whether they are an average citizen or a person in power.

I consider America's turning point in morality to be the turbulent 60s. Obviously, you can show morality to be increasing or decreasing just by changing the beginning dates.

Divorce and crime (violent crime has nearly tripled) have all been on the rise since that turbulent decade.

[Nilloc James]

Is there a decline in morality in america?

No.

One hundred and fifty years ago, many Americans justified slavery on moral grounds. Now it is not acceptable to suggest that slavery is a morally good idea. One hundred years ago, women were denied rights that would now be considered immoral. Fifty years ago, the wholesale indiscriminate bombing of civilians in war was justified by American leaders. This is now not considered a moral option.

In the long run, it appears to me that morality has been improving in America.

What is socially acceptable has changes yes, but how people adhere to those norms is morallity. I am not sure if people go with what is socially acceptable stronger now then 50 or 150 years ago.

[McCulloch]

I consider America's turning point in morality to be the turbulent 60s. Obviously, you can show morality to be increasing or decreasing just by changing the beginning dates.

Divorce and crime (violent crime has nearly tripled) have all been on the rise since that turbulent decade.

An increase in divorce is not necessarily a decline in morality, unless you presuppose that divorce is always immoral.

Those statistics do indicate that in the USA there has been an increase in the rate of violent crime from the 1960's to the late 1990's. Can anyone validate the claim that secularism is a causative factor? How close is the correlation allowing for the gap between when the concepts are taught and when the crimes are committed? Are there similar correlations with other countries who have introduced secular education?

What is socially acceptable has changes yes, but how people adhere to those norms is morallity. I am not sure if people go with what is socially acceptable stronger now then 50 or 150 years ago.

Fifty years ago, sex outside of marriage was socially taboo in the USA. It was not allowed to be portrayed in movies or on television, except to condemn the practice. Yet people then as now participated in sex without marriage. Then it would be considered immoral, now it is generally not. Therefore, it seems that, if we accept these definitions, morality has improved simply by changing what is acceptable.

[JoeyKnothead]

Here I'm gonna consider morality as acts which reasonable people can argue for each side of a given moral issue. (murder to me would be a "civil" and not "moral" issue)

I consider the whole "morality" issue as somewhat of a red herring. Folks will act as folks, where their im/morality has been suppressed (or I say oppressed), then can we really say it didn't occur? This is what I don't like about laws that try to impose a moral issue. There's just no compelling reason for me to think making folks criminals for consenting acts is a worthy endeavor.

[FinalEnigma]

Can you expand on that joey? Moral issues are ones which cause no direct harm to another without their consent(such as human euthanasia) and civil issues are matter of harm to another person or society(theft, murder, rape)? or am I reading you wrong?

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Is there a decline in morality in america?

No.

One hundred and fifty years ago, many Americans justified slavery on moral grounds. Now it is not acceptable to suggest that slavery is a morally good idea. One hundred years ago, women were denied rights that would now be considered immoral. Fifty years ago, the wholesale indiscriminate bombing of civilians in war was justified by American leaders. This is now not considered a moral option.

In the long run, it appears to me that morality has been improving in America.

You're from Canada, right? If so, you are perhaps taking this from a biased perspective. You are looking upon the morals of North American society from a member of said society who probably holds many of the same morals. The fact that your morals mirror the morals of your society means that you are looking at the moral fabric of your society from a biased perspective. Of course, everything regarding morality involves bias and subjectivity.

Now, on to the OP. I'm honestly not sure what perspective to take on this question. I guess, perhaps, I should look at it from a Christian perspective, as easyrider is Christian and he is the one who sees moral decay in America. I suppose, if I look at it from a Christian perspective, morality is declining in America as more people are beginning to turn away from Christianity and its moral code with it.

Blaming humanism and school districts though? Pfft. School has a surprisingly small influence on the morals of a child, and humanism isn't even mentioned in school. Connecting "moral decline" in America to schools and humanism is incredibly flimsy at best, and I would like to ask easyrider to elaborate on his claim and try to back it up because, as is, it is an unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim.