Good vs Evil: The war exists?

[Confused]

For the moment, lets set aside the existence of God debate and look at what we have. We have a book that while it states that God created all of man, including those fallen angels we now call evil, it seems to me that God has a lot to watch over. Let's consider for one moment, how we often say we don't see God intervening in the evil done to others. What if that human evil has no supernatural cause. What if that human evil is nothing more than mankind? God created us with good components and bad components. We use each of these frequently. But we say there is no evidence of God so He doesn't exist, right? What if it is merely the fact that we don't see the actions of God. I don't mean things like "God works in mysterious ways" or "despite the trial, your faith ensured a positive outcome" or anything as minute of construct as the human mind has been following. The bible is full of tales of true evil. Demons. Magic, both good and bad. Fallen angels challenging God. I don't ascribe to God being all powerful. By human standards, perhaps. But by standards of the imagination, not even close. We don't see any of these "evil" things spoken of in scripture mostly. Rather, we see man hurting man. Not demons hurting man. Maybe the reason for this is directly because of God. Could it be that the old adage of an eternal war existing between good (angels) and evil (demons) is truly being campaigned and of all the problems on Gods list, we really are the lowest? He sent His Son to do what He could for us, but ultimately, that battle between God and evil is so all encompassing that he trusts mankind to find our own way with only the minimal of His influence?

In this particular forum (Theology), we use the validity of scripture as a tool. Is there anything found in scripture that might give us light to the cause of no direct interaction with God as we have seen in scripture?

Is it possible that God is leading the fight. Not just for man, but for all that is good (angels, heaven, etc...) as well? Is it possible that we can't directly see that struggle, but can perhaps discern it from the scriptures we use to acknowledge the presence of God.

(Granted, pain medicine has that side effect that I detest in that it opens the mind up to more than what is reality, but this stupid thought has been going through my head so much for 12 hours now it may drive me insane and perhaps insight into scripture can either negate or support it enough to let me get some rest )

As a preemptive strike, I would remind posters that in this particular forum, the use of scripture is valid in and of itself. It need not be supported by other sources unless the meaning of scripture is challenged in which case that circular logic can still be valid in using other scripture to validate or negate the perception of the scripture in question (wild ride wouldn't you say, gotta love the irony).

[justifyothers]

For the moment, lets set aside the existence of God debate and look at what we have. We have a book that while it states that God created all of man, including those fallen angels we now call evil, it seems to me that God has a lot to watch over. Let's consider for one moment, how we often say we don't see God intervening in the evil done to others. What if that human evil has no supernatural cause. What if that human evil is nothing more than mankind? God created us with good components and bad components. We use each of these frequently. But we say there is no evidence of God so He doesn't exist, right? What if it is merely the fact that we don't see the actions of God. I don't mean things like "God works in mysterious ways" or "despite the trial, your faith ensured a positive outcome" or anything as minute of construct as the human mind has been following. The bible is full of tales of true evil. Demons. Magic, both good and bad. Fallen angels challenging God. I don't ascribe to God being all powerful. By human standards, perhaps. But by standards of the imagination, not even close. We don't see any of these "evil" things spoken of in scripture mostly. Rather, we see man hurting man. Not demons hurting man. Maybe the reason for this is directly because of God. Could it be that the old adage of an eternal war existing between good (angels) and evil (demons) is truly being campaigned and of all the problems on Gods list, we really are the lowest? He sent His Son to do what He could for us, but ultimately, that battle between God and evil is so all encompassing that he trusts mankind to find our own way with only the minimal of His influence?

This is such a good topic. And one that I have always been interested in. It is no stretch for me to see this as possible. In fact, you mention below that you have been thinking about it for 12 hours. You're lucky!! It has been haunting my mind for years.

There are some things in scripture that I consider to support this idea.

1) The idea that there was something in the beginning that defied and battled God. Starting with Adam & Eve...though I don't think it's a literal story, I think it represents some type of battle. Apparantly, they were unaware of evil until it presented itself in the form of defiance. (role played by the serpent)

2) Gen 5 - all the liniages are recorded in this chapter. They mention the sons and their lives and the age of their deaths. Except, oddly enough, there is no death of Cain mentioned, as with Seth, the other son of Adam, after Abel, whom Cain killed. In Chapter 4, the liniage of Cain is listed, but no time of death for Cain - nothing whatsoever on how long he lived. There is a story concerning his sons contained in the Book of Enoch that is very interesting. I think it goes into magic and music and evil enchantments, etc. What happened to Cain? Did he die? Did he continue on as an evil entity? Nobody has been able to give me an answer here. In fact, many that I've talked to never even noticed this....

3) Gen 6 - regarding the angels somehow 'involving' themselves with man. Some say it was NOT angels having intercourse with the women of earth. If you read any of the Book of Enoch, it goes into this at length. That is WAS the case and this led to the spread of 'evil offspring'. So, if this were actually the case, the evil spirits could have multiplied on earth to battle us or angels, or both.

4) The story of Enoch goes like this: he was lifted to heaven and shown visions of the levels of heaven and hell and the battles being waged between angles and demons. He is mentioned in Gen. 5:21. Also, his name is referred to by the author of Hebrews in chapter 11:5. Then in the book of Jude, it is almost verbatem what is written in the Book of Enoch regarding the fallen angels. (Have you read Jude? It's like 2 pages.) It links up the Genesis chapter (6) concerning this also. Very interesting.

Is it possible that God is leading the fight. Not just for man, but for all that is good (angels, heaven, etc...) as well? Is it possible that we can't directly see that struggle, but can perhaps discern it from the scriptures we use to acknowledge the presence of God.

I have always kept this door of possibility wide open. I tend to look for threads of consistency, and I think this qualifies.

(Granted, pain medicine has that side effect that I detest in that it opens the mind up to more than what is reality, but this stupid thought has been going through my head so much for 12 hours now it may drive me insane and perhaps insight into scripture can either negate or support it enough to let me get some rest )

OH! Can I have one??