Mental Expansion, shamanism - Christianity and Psychedelics

manicdepression · Post by **manicdepression** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:18 pm

From the beginning of time, Shamans and tribes used psychedelic plants to expand their mind into the spirit world and mental expansion. They generally had the shaman of the tribe that they served to the community as the mediator between the spirit realms and the world. Now they use plants with a compound build of the chemical 'dmt', which scientifically has been known as the Spirit Molecule.

It seems as if some of the biblical prophets could have been simply a mediator between god and the world and wrote letters to guide souls to help the world to go on a certain path or what you may wish. This may sound radical, but with my personal experience with psychoactive plants, you have an inexplicable experience of mysticism, where you feel connected with the universe and nature. Stick with me here, there are accounts of which there is possibly evidence of Moses and The day of the sabbath was used for psychedelic mushrooms.

read the book 'Mystery of Manna'.

Now i have very hard depression problems growing up strictly Christian and experiencing these type of things, and my life has become very Double-Minded and its hard to cope with, the bible has lots of wisdom, but i cant accept the dogma that God sends people to hell and Jesus was the ONLY way to talk to god.

I would like some insight.

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:57 pm

I've done my share of psychedelics, and they ain't kids play. The important thing is to take them when you are in a proper frame of mind, and never, ever take them when you 'ain't right'. As to your specific deal, I highly, highly, highly recommend you seek professional care. These forums are nice, but they are not the way, they can not accurately assess your condition.
I too was a very depressed person when I was younger, and the courts eventually forced me to seek care. You have GOT TO GO to a professional. We'll wait for you, and do what we can, but IT IS UP TO YOU TO GET THE CARE YOU NEED. NOW!

manicdepression · Post by **manicdepression** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:31 pm

thanks.

I would like to add more to my personal problem that i am having.

I am currently 17 years old, and my prime of psychedelic experience was when i was 16 years old, just graduated early from school and began experimenting with LSD and Psilocybin mushrooms. The first few experiences were very amazing, explicit, and eye opening, and i lived in a 'heavenly' state of mind for months, then i started to question my original religion christianity, which i believed was TRUTH my entire life. I had decided to not believe it, it seemed too illogical and had no spiritual feeling like i had recieved on psychedelics. I had one bad trip my last time on 7 hits of LSD, and i couldnt grasp who i was, where i was, and all i knew was i was existance, i went into a world of lost ness. I then seeked god, and i would go back and forth between believing and not. I felt like i had connected with the 'energy', but now i don't know what to believe. My parents keep telling me im crazy and that i need help, and my dad insists chrisianity is PURE TRUTH and there is no other truth, and its my family, and i love them you know? but they are both mentally ill naturally. I am a musician, and i have an extremely deep connection with music, for i played music while smoking pot all the time, doing mushies and LSD, and i gained alot of insight about feeling music from that experience, and it makes me feel like the world is at peace while i play... i love the hendrix, floyd, jazz, the dead, all that... haha

But real life is hard to cope with, and im not sure what i should do about all this, i want to believe in god, but i feel no point in living anymore unless its for music.... and thats it

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 pm

Dude, I'm no professional, so keep that in mind. SEEK MEDICAL / PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP. Depression and drugs are a DEADLY MIX. I don't think you've done enough, or for long enough to do irreparable damage, but I'm not qualified to say that.
The severity of depression is not always important, it's the depression itself that is dangerous. Stop taking drugs at least until you get this sorted out.
Never, ever take drugs when you are either especially 'up' or especially 'down'. This is one of the easiest ways for folks to overdose, or to do something that gets them seriously hurt or worse. Seek professional help.
Quit hanging out with your 'drug' crowd at least until you've got a handle on this.You should probably quit hanging out with them completely. Your most important action now is to seek help. If not right this instant, then it should be your primary goal for the immediate future.
I'm not anti drugs, I'm not anti religious, I'm just trying to give you the benefit of my personal experience. I don't mean to sound alarmist, but you are combining drugs with an already altered psychological state. You must quit the drugs, seek the help, and you must do it ASAP.
Talk to your school councilor, and ask for a referral to a qualified professional.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:00 pm

joeyknuccione wrote:Dude, I'm no professional, so keep that in mind. SEEK MEDICAL / PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP. Depression and drugs are a DEADLY MIX. I don't think you've done enough, or for long enough to do irreparable damage, but I'm not qualified to say that.

I would second that. In addition. I would say, get off and stay off the drugs, period. If you are depressed, then any combination of drugs and/alcohol will make it worse, or potentially trigger another episode. I also think that 17 is too young to experiment with drugs in any case. The mind is not fully developed until it is about 24/25, so dealing with psychedelics in specifically can really mess it up even more than someone who is older.

Nameless · Post by **Nameless** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:38 am

manicdepression wrote: The first few experiences were very amazing, explicit, and eye opening, and i lived in a 'heavenly' state of mind for months, then i started to question my original religion christianity, which i believed was TRUTH my entire life. I had decided to not believe it, it seemed too illogical and had no spiritual feeling like i had recieved on psychedelics.

So far all's well...

I had one bad trip my last time on 7 hits of LSD, and i couldnt grasp who i was, where i was, and all i knew was i was existance,

That, my young friend, is 'enlightenment'. It is 'truth'!
'You', and the existence that you perceive, are One and the same!

i went into a world of lost ness.

"I" = 'egoic image'. The image is that there is a 'person, a 'you' distinct from the context in which it 'is'. It is the ego that 'feels lost' and will madly (literally) seek a sence of security and stability in it's imagined autonomy.
It is a raw state, a powerful state, and when the ego is manifesting, a 'lonely' and 'frightening' state also. The light of Truth displays the ego (all you think that you are) as the smoke and mirrors that it truly is; a 'distortion'.
I have heard of none who ran back into delusion (for the ego comforts), though, once gaining a 'higher taste'. You will get stronger and have less 'egoic needs', and not take them too seriously, not 'believe' them.
"To escape our illusions is to plunge headlong into chaos." - Iota
Yes, the whole world that you knew is a lie.
Be brave.

I then seeked god, and i would go back and forth between believing and not. I felt like i had connected with the 'energy', but now i don't know what to believe.

If you have no 'need' to 'believe', believe nothing. Be strong.
'Thinking' works better, for me, than 'believing'. I do not 'believe' anything. I 'think'...

My parents keep telling me im crazy and that i need help, and my dad insists chrisianity is PURE TRUTH and there is no other truth, and its my family, and i love them you know? but they are both mentally ill naturally.

You are existence, they are existence, you are they as they are you as you are me.. goo-goo-ga-joob, dude!
So be compassionate with them. Realize that they have no more choice in who they are and what they say and do and think as do you. Don't argue no matter how sweet your 'moment of enlightenment' was it you. They have their own. Just remember, when the mouths get too painful, that they might die any moment. If that were the case and you knew in advance, for instance, you wouldn't let anything that they might say bother you, but you'd offer your love in compassion, realizing what is 'real' and what is 'smoke on the water'...
Let their words and looniness scut across the clear blue skies of your mind, and and just reflect the love. Thats all you need do. No one could fault you for that. If you have any choice in the matter... The world is jam packed with our looney and insane and hurting brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers...
The closer I get to people, the more I seem to be in a state of compassion and empathy. We are all truly One! Now! and Now! and Now!!!

But real life is hard to cope with, and im not sure what i should do about all this, i want to believe in god, but i feel no point in living anymore unless its for music.... and thats it

Just let it flow. Life doesnt need a point. It continues to unfold nontheless. Take joy in the moment. Feel your feelings, they change quick enough.
Ride the coaster of life through the great countryside. If you want to know where you are, look around. If you want to know whats around the corner, get there and ... look around.

"Integrity needs no rules!"

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:27 am

This is not the time for psychobabble. The OPer has a serious situation, and if not taken care of it can become a real danger. As I said before manicdepression, these forums are statistically close to a zero cure for you. Seek professional help, wherever it is. I don't know if you're in the US, but most cities here have mental health centers. They can help, but it's up to you to seek the help you need.

Nameless · Post by **Nameless** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:42 am

joeyknuccione wrote:This is not the time for psychobabble.

You wouldn't be referrin to my post, would you?

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:58 pm

Nameless wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:This is not the time for psychobabble.
You wouldn't be referrin to my post, would you?

lol. I probably could have said it better, my intent was to make sure this dude gets proper treatment.

Nameless · Post by **Nameless** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:32 am

joeyknuccione wrote:
Nameless wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:This is not the time for psychobabble.
You wouldn't be referrin to my post, would you?
lol. I probably could have said it better, my intent was to make sure this dude gets proper treatment.

I'm not sure that any 'treatment' is necessary. The 'drugs' that the shrinks push can certainly be more toxic than what he is doing, and certainly less 'mind expanding' (see Huxley's 'Doors of Perception'). Mystics throughout the millennia used entheogens like he is. Perhaps he won't need to for long, perhaps he will. There is no one else he can be, no matter the political correctness, or not, of who he is, Now.
Exactly what is the 'disease' that you see that you would refer for 'treatment' ('reeducation' camps like in China?)?
He refers to 'situational' depression which doesn't sound like neurochemically imbalanced 'depression'. One doesn't 'treat' grief, for instance, when a loved one dies. One just works through it, no? It is not a 'disease', necessarily.
There are plenty happyface pharmaceutical corporation/doctor pushed drugs that are way more toxic than a few mushrooms or LSD. They would, perhaps, be a last resort in the case presented to me here, as far as I can see, if additional symptoms require it. So far, I can't see it. There are other ways...

And our young stoner friend might like to ask the same questions HERE.