Is Religion or God The Basis of Morals 2nd Edition?

[JoeyKnothead]

My other thread got jacked, so let's try it again.

I've seen it claimed by several theists that God or maybe religion is the basis of morals. When confronted on these claims, the subject never gets addressed, and like my other thread, theists at least seem to want to go off topic, and not address their claims.

So I present to y'all:
Is God or religion the basis of morals?

I say morals are the result of tribes coming in closer and closer contact with one another. Over the course of time, morals such as not stealing became important because of the potential of social disruption. Of course I will expand on this, but let's see what those who have made the original claim have to say.

[nygreenguy]

Morals are simply the result of evolution. We have seen this in all sorts of social animals. The crazy assholes simply get kicked out of the community and can not survive on their own.

Its beneficial to be moral.

[byofrcs]

Morals are simply the result of evolution. We have seen this in all sorts of social animals. The crazy assholes simply get kicked out of the community and can not survive on their own.

Its beneficial to be moral.

Yes, our evolved morals are to humans as sharp canine teeth are to carnivores.

[nygreenguy]

Morals are simply the result of evolution. We have seen this in all sorts of social animals. The crazy assholes simply get kicked out of the community and can not survive on their own.

Its beneficial to be moral.

Yes, our evolved morals are to humans as sharp canine teeth are to carnivores.

While I think I agree with your point, im not sure I like your delivery. Morals are inherent in all social organisms from ants, to lions, to chimps to humans.

[Beto]

Morals are simply the result of evolution. We have seen this in all sorts of social animals. The crazy assholes simply get kicked out of the community and can not survive on their own.

Its beneficial to be moral.

Yes, our evolved morals are to humans as sharp canine teeth are to carnivores.

While I think I agree with your point, im not sure I like your delivery. Morals are inherent in all social organisms from ants, to lions, to chimps to humans.

Seems adequate to me. The word "evolved" is what makes the difference. We lost one survival tool, as we developed another, more efficient. We rely as much on our morals as carnivores rely on their teeth, although each has measures of both.

[JoeyKnothead]

Checkin' my hook. Nope, not even a nibble. Worm's dead, puttin' another'n on.

[C-Nub]

I think your problem, bud, is that they know this is, to borrow from your metaphor, a heavily baited question. You're asking with the intent of contradicting anyone who says 'yes' with the mountains of evidence that supports the fact, and I say fact knowing full well it is an actual fact, and not one of those things theists would pass off as a fact ("God sees everything!") that they're (very) wrong.

I would go so far as to say that religion is maybe the #1 historical justification for immorality. It's ok to do something bad if you think God wants you to.

I'll be back later to Jack this thread, I'm thinking the Religious meaning of Seinfeld.

[Sjoerd]

As no other theist has yet provided an answer, I will take the bait then

If you define "God" as the creator of the universe, then yes, he is the source of all morals since he created them together with everything else. If you reject this definition, then not.

I would argue against religion being the source of all morals, since some animals do indeed also have morals and AFAIK they aren't religious.

But I would say that religion is a source of morals, just like parental upbringing, education, culture and inner conscience, all of these things overlapping and intimately connected of course.

[Grand Pbuh]

As no other theist has yet provided an answer, I will take the bait then

If you define "God" as the creator of the universe, then yes, he is the source of all morals since he created them together with everything else. If you reject this definition, then not.

I would argue against religion being the source of all morals, since some animals do indeed also have morals and AFAIK they aren't religious.

But I would say that religion is a source of morals, just like parental upbringing, education, culture and inner conscience, all of these things overlapping and intimately connected of course.

Yep, I agree. Religion (God's commands within it, according to your definition of God) can be a source of some morals -- like for Jews, it is good to observe the Sabbath, bad if not. And then I think we are just born with others, or learn them from secular sources.

[Bennettresearch]

My other thread got jacked, so let's try it again.

I've seen it claimed by several theists that God or maybe religion is the basis of morals. When confronted on these claims, the subject never gets addressed, and like my other thread, theists at least seem to want to go off topic, and not address their claims.

So I present to y'all:
Is God or religion the basis of morals?

I say morals are the result of tribes coming in closer and closer contact with one another. Over the course of time, morals such as not stealing became important because of the potential of social disruption. Of course I will expand on this, but let's see what those who have made the original claim have to say.

Hey Joey,

Well, as a christian I guess it is expected that I would side with religion, but I don't. Even though we can trace back to the earliest "modern" humans some kind of religion, it would be the awakening of morals that would precede this. Someone tried to jack me up on a point I made about the mind's filtering process, but I think it is relevant here. Mankind has clearly invented religion and this is why it can get so out of hand at times. It is the interpretations of mental experiences that produced some kind of answer to the questions they generated.

I would disagree with your crediting tribalism as the source of morals. Morals preceded everything that mankind has created. Morals were subjective decisions based on what they thought was right and wrong. Impure in practice but a basis for future expansion. As we know in our society, some people have stronger morals than others and some seem to lack them altogether. And so, there is some kind of moral core in the brain that exists within the parameters of a generally accepted "normal" brain in spite of how it may manifiest itself through the rationalization of the individual.

An interesting side note is how society can create its own monsters. By trying to manipulate and force moral behavior from someone who is naturally inclined to think morally, society can cause rebellion and immoral behavior. I'm not above that. Even though I practice good morals naturally, there are some people that make me want to go totally evil on them. Funny how that works sometimes.

Craig