God is Perfect!

Exploring the details of Christianity

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God is Perfect!

Post #1

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Hey what am I doing in the theology and doctrine forum?

Anyhow. I read this Here
Greatest I Am wrote:If you believe in God then you must believe He is Perfect.
I’m a bit ignorant of doctrine. But I am curious. Where in scripture does it say that god is perfect. And exactly what is said?

Also, if god is perfect…what does that mean?

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Post #2

Post by McCulloch »

I know that the word perfect can be used in two different senses.
Perfect can mean complete, not missing anything.
Perfect can also mean flawless, zero margin of error.
Or both, depending on context.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #3

Post by Furrowed Brow »

McCulloch wrote:I know that the word perfect can be used in two different senses.
Perfect can mean complete, not missing anything.
Perfect can also mean flawless, zero margin of error.
Or both, depending on context.
In either context where does scripture say God is complete, not missing anything; or God is flawless; or both?

Expanding the subject a tad. Where does scripture say God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent?

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Post #4

Post by Furrowed Brow »

The theist response to my questions is so far under whelming. I'm a bit surprised I have to say. Does this mean that scripture does not explicitly say or can be construed as saying God is perfect?

Lets try this another way. How does scripture defined or describe God.

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Post #5

Post by Furrowed Brow »

The silence is deafening. Now there are a whole bunch of you out there worshipping something you call God. What is this God according to scripture? C'mon theist guys and girls. You follow scripture. You worship God. If you belong to the standard Christian religions your worship of God starts with scripture. What does scripture tell you are worshipping?

I mean is it possible to read scripture and decided the God you are worshipping is not perfect. Not omnipotent. Not omnipresent. Not Omniscient etc.

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Post #6

Post by Furrowed Brow »

I guess I should just have stayed out of the theology and doctrine forum :roll: .

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Post #7

Post by QED »

That'll teach you! But it is awfully quiet in here. :confused2:

Perfection is an easy thing to imagine: equipped with an imagination, a "Plato" was bound to come along one day. I think the difference between what could, in practice, be achieved and in principle, what could be envisaged would inevitably lead to a philosophical foundation for a prefect deity. Whether this is written in someone's book or not is academic -- if it occurs to me, I'm sure it's somewhere in the back of everyone's mind.

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Post #8

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Just me and you then QED.... until a theist posts a reply I've got nothing to do but hang about and teach myself to play this violin I just found lying around in here..... :-({|=

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Post #9

Post by McCulloch »

I thought I might help out by Googling God's attributes. Here is a typical result:
[url=http://www.allaboutgod.com/attributes-of-god.htm]Attributes of God – The Meaning[/url], AllAboutGOD.com wrote:Wisdom: “Wisdom is the ability to devise perfect ends and to achieve these ends by the most perfect means.” In other words, God makes no mistakes. He is the Father who truly knows best, as Paul explains in Romans 11:33: “Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and His ways!”

Infinitude: God knows no boundaries. He is without measure. This attribute by definition impacts all of the others. Since God is infinite, everything else about Him must also be infinite.

Sovereignty: This is “the attribute by which He rules His entire creation.” It is the application of His other attributes of being all-knowing and all-powerful. It makes Him absolutely free to do what He knows to be best. God is in control of everything that happens. Man still has a free will, and is responsible for his choices in life.

Holiness: This is the attribute that sets God apart from all other created beings. It refers to His majesty and His perfect moral purity. There is absolutely no sin or evil thought in God at all. His holiness is the definition of that which is pure and righteous in all the universe. Wherever God has appeared, such as to Moses at the burning bush, that place becomes holy just for God having been there.

Trinity: Though the actual word is not used in the Bible, the truth of God revealing Himself in three persons is included. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all called God, given worship as God, exist eternally, and are involved in doing things only God could do. Although, God reveals Himself in three persons, God is One and cannot be divided. All are involved completely whenever One of the Three is active.

Omniscience: “God possesses perfect knowledge and therefore has no need to learn. God has never learned and cannot learn.” Omniscience means all-knowing. God knows everything, and His knowledge is infinite. It is impossible to hide anything from God.

Faithfulness: Everything that God has promised will come to pass. His faithfulness guarantees this fact. He does not lie. What He has said in the Bible about Himself is true. Jesus even said that He is the Truth. This is extremely important for the followers of Jesus because it is on His faithfulness that our hope of eternal life rests. He will honor His promise that our sins will be forgiven and that we will live forever with Him.

Love: Love is such an important part of God’s character that the apostle John wrote, “God is love.” This means that God holds the well-being of others as His primary concern. For a full definition of love, read 1 Corinthians 13. To see love in action, study the life of Jesus. His sacrifice on the cross for the sins of others is the ultimate act of love. God’s love is not a love of emotion but of action. His love gives freely to the object of its affection, those who choose to follow His son Jesus.

Omnipotence: Literally this word means all-powerful. Since God is infinite and since He possesses power, He possesses infinite power. He does allow His creatures to have some power, but this in no way diminishes His own. “He expends no energy that must be replenished.” When the Bible says God rested on the seventh day, it was to set an example for us and our need for rest, not because He was tired.

Self-existence: When Moses asked who he was talking to in the burning bush, God said, “I AM THE ONE WHO ALWAYS IS.” God has no beginning or end. He just exists. Nothing else in all the universe is self-caused. Only God. In fact, if anything else had created Him, that thing would be God. This is a difficult concept for our minds since everything else we will ever encounter comes from something other than itself. The Bible says, “In the beginning, God.” He was already there.

Self-sufficiency: The Bible says that God has life in Himself (see John 5:26). All other life in the universe is a gift from God. He has no needs and there is no way He can improve. To God, nothing else is necessary. He does not need our help with anything, but because of His grace and love, He allows us to be a part of advancing His plan on earth and being a blessing to others. We are the ones who change, but never God. He is self-sufficient.

Justice: The Bible says that God is just, but it is His character that defines what being just really is. He does not conform to some outside criteria. Being just brings moral equity to everyone. When there are evil acts, justice demands there be a penalty. Since God is perfect and has never done evil, no penalty would ever be necessary; however, because of His love, God paid the penalty for our evil deeds by going to the cross Himself. His justice needed to be satisfied, but He took care of it for all who will believe in Jesus.

Immutability: This simply means that God never changes. It is why the Bible says, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.”

Mercy: “Mercy is the attribute of God which disposes Him to be actively compassionate.” Since God’s justice is satisfied in Jesus, He is free to show mercy to all those who have chosen to follow Him. It will never end since it is a part of God’s nature. Mercy is the way He desires to relate to mankind, and He does so unless the person chooses to despise or ignore God at which time His justice becomes the prominent attribute.

Eternal: In some ways, this fact about God is similar to His self-existence. God always has been and will forever be, because God dwells in eternity. Time is His creation. It is why God can see the end from the beginning, and why He is never surprised by anything. If He were not eternal, God’s promise of eternal life for those who follow Jesus would have little value.

Goodness: “The goodness of God is that which disposes Him to be kind, cordial, benevolent, and full of good will toward men.” This attribute of God is why He bestows all the blessing He does on His followers. God’s actions define what goodness is, and we can easily see it in the way Jesus related to the people around Him.

Gracious: God enjoys giving great gifts to those who love Him, even when they do not deserve it. Grace is the way we describe that inclination. Jesus Christ is the channel through which His grace moves. The Bible says, “The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Omnipresence: This theological term means “always present.” Since God is infinite, His being knows no boundaries. So, clearly He is everywhere. This truth is taught throughout the Bible as the phrase “I am with you always” is repeated 22 times in both the Old and New Testaments. These were even Jesus’ words of assurance just after giving the challenge to His disciples to take His message to the entire world. This is certainly a comforting truth for all who follow Jesus.

Attributes of God – The Conclusion
This is the description of the God of the Bible. All other ideas about God are, according to the Bible, false gods. They are from the imagination of mankind. By learning the attributes of God, you may praise God for who He really is and for how each of His attributes impacts your life in a positive way.
Notice the irony that in the conclusion, the author says that he is describing the God of the Bible, yet very few of his statements are fully supported by the Bible itself.
  1. Wisdom He brings forth no scripture that says that God is perfectly wise.
  2. Infinitude: Again no biblical support is offered.
  3. Sovereignty: Nothing here either.
  4. Holiness: Same again.
  5. Trinity: An admission that this is not in the Bible per se, but no Biblical support.
  6. Omniscience: No Biblical support.
  7. Faithfulness: This important idea is left without any support.
  8. Love: Finally something from the Bible! “God is love.” For a full definition of love, read 1 Corinthians 13. Nice reference. Just do not apply it to God's love. It does not fit. Jesus' sacrifice, taught in the Bible is also raised. No support for the idea that God is perfect love, just that God loves.
  9. Omnipotence: Back to the unsupported assertions.
  10. Self-existence: The Bible says, “In the beginning, God.” Some Biblical support. By the same token, the chaos must also be self-existent.
  11. Self-sufficiency: While the author does not actually quote it, he does bring John 5:26 as a reference to support this idea.
  12. Justice: The author says that the Bible says that God is just, and so it does. It would have been nice to cite an example or two or to show how God's apparent injustices were, in fact, just.
  13. Immutability: Cites the rather tired, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” which does seem contrary to the Biblical narative.
  14. Mercy: No Biblical support provided.
  15. Eternal: No Biblical support provided.
  16. Goodness: No Biblical support provided.
  17. Gracious: The Bible says, “The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” and the author brings no explanation of this apparent contradiction nor how this is reconciled with point (13)
  18. Omnipresence: The phrase “I am with you always” is repeated 22 times in both the Old and New Testaments. This phrase does not mean omnipresent, just the ability to be with you, where ever you are. Good start though.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #10

Post by McCulloch »

Another example:
Expert, Mrs. Priscilla Lyons wrote:Date: 1/16/2007
Subject: The attributes and characteristics of God

Question
I recently listed God as being Unique, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent and Divine. Please! How can I substantiate these with examples and facts from the Bible

Answer
Dear Adrian,
I'll try to come up with more exact Bible references, but in the meantime, does the recipient of your listing of God's attributes believe the Bible? If not, examples and facts from the Bible may not impress.
Isaiah 40, especially verses 18, 25, and 28 help substantiate your list. Also Psalm 139, especially verses 4, 7, and 16. God's questions to Job, starting in chapter 38, are instructive also. Romans 1:19-20 could help lead you into a Romans Road presentation of the gospel.
I'll wait to hear back from you about the recipient of your listing and possible substantiation, so we can tailor the response better, ok?
Priscilla
Damn you Priscilla for making me look up the references!
Isaiah 40:18, 25, 28 wrote: To whom then will you liken God?
Or what likeness will you compare with Him?...
To whom then will you liken Me
That I would be his equal?" says the Holy One. ...
Do you not know? Have you not heard?
The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth
Does not become weary or tired
His understanding is inscrutable.
Not quite there Priscilla! This just says that God is incomparable to all others and inscrutably wise. A wee short of omni.
Psalm 139:4, 7, 16 wrote:Even before there is a word on my tongue,
Behold, O LORD, You know it all. ...
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?...
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
Getting closer. This claims that God is a great mind reader and that humans cannot hide from His presence.

Let's see what else you have. I'm not going to do the Job thing.

Romans 1:19-20 wrote:because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
I think we have finally found one of the omnis. This makes clear mention of eternal power.

All-in-all a pretty sad effort. Especially for an expert.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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