What's the beef with Catholics?

[ithinkthereforeiam]

What is the beef other Christian denominations have with the Catholics? What do you have in common? What are the disagreements?

[melikio]

The REAL PROBLEMS have to do mostly with HUMAN nature, and the prejudices of human beings. Traditions and stereotypes honored or valued, cause a great deal of the worst discrimination and oppressive attitudes in existence.

People DO cause and sustain problems, and religion can be anything from the solution to those problems, to the literal SOURCE of them.

People and the societies in which they live all suffer from obvious but "sticky" issues which have plagued mankind since its beginning; or the essence of those related problems have lingered.

I was raised "Catholic", and then became involved with the "Assembly of God" denomination. I've even been around the "Baptists" for quite awhile. And over the 35+ years that I've actively pursued "truth" and a "good" life in religion, I've seen the best AND worst of many human beings. If nothing else, being a homosexual, has shown me just how terrible even those who are MOST religious can be.

Catholics and other "Christian" denominations have unique doctrines, goals and practical applications that they manage to "extract" (or interpret) from the "Bible" and other sources associated with their particular histories. IF LOVE IS THE MOTIVATION behind the "religion", then the BEST behaviors and outcomes are typically attained; but all too often, people become worshippers of their specific "religion", they put their FAITH and BELIEFS before charity, personal liberties and the well-being of other people.

Since I learned that the most effectual application of religion comes through LOVE, I have personally experienced the "excellence" associated with it (1Cor13). People can say/believe what they wish (I grant them that grace, as God has granted me); but there is (and has always been) an element within HUMAN NATURE that is not satisfied or content with other possessing and/or practicing different "beliefs"; not only does that "dissatisfaction" fester in the hearts and minds of some, it often deteriorates into fear and hatred which is unfortunately hard for those most dedicated to "religion" to detect and counter. I began to notice that the most, when about 5 years ago, I began having various debates and discussions with professed atheists.

Many atheists (contrary to what many religious people are "taught"), do often have solid logic to apply to makind's most troublesome issues. One problem with many religious people seeing that, has to do with "memes" and "paradigms" set up via many religious and social traditions. Specifically, the idea of "separating" oneself from those who may view things differently, causes a self-perpetuating negative effect (where actual "truth" often becomes victimized). It's hard for some and seemingly imposible for others, to accept that THEIR religious views are not necessarily those which define "truth" for the entire world. They may WANT that to be, or BELIEVE that to be, but I think that most people able to see reality for even just a little time, can sense what I'm relating here.

Many see what I'm trying to say here, but it makes no less traumatic for them to come around to either examining or accepting what I am saying. It's easy to believe that "Satan" (or equivalent aspect) is somehow "clouding" one's perceptions or wisdom. Still, the reality is that Catholics see their view as being defensible, just as Baptists, Mormons and others typically do; THAT is what people have as their religious foundations, many things they believe and others they associate with very REAL aspects of this world.

So, I think the problem(s) that many have with "Catholics" or anyone else, are exacerbated FAR MORE by human nature than the actual will or teaching of "God". I have my own beliefs, but I have accepted and realized that my perceptions and experiences of THE "truth", aren't (nor MUST they necessarily be) those of ALL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

To me, it's mostly a matter of taking the "Golden Rule", a few steps beyond being mere "words". Love in action, trumps "religion" every time.

-Mel-

[Confused]

What is the beef other Christian denominations have with the Catholics? What do you have in common? What are the disagreements?

There have been may threads about this issue, none of which seem to resolve the issue. What I hear from the majority of Christians on this site, Catholicism isn't Christianity. Review in Christianity and Apologetics forum. There are two threads I think that attempt to show why Catholics aren't Christians. However, as the definition stands now, I will stand by my assertion in any of those threads that Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, though they may add things to their practice, they take nothing away from the Bible. The problem I see is that mainstream Christians don't want to take the responsiblility of the mass murders the Catholic church did during the Holy Wars etc..... In other words, if the denounce Catholics as Christians then they don't have to admit the heinous acts done in the name of their God as a start of their religion. Then can keep the beginning of Christianity pure if the denounce Catholicism as a denomination of Christianity.

[Cathar1950]

You make a good point Confused but the Protestants did it too.
There were Anabaptists that were pacifists. But both Catholic and Protestants killed them. In fact more were killed of them then either other side during the Reformation. It is easier to kill those not fighting back.
But both have the same beginnings and are orthodox Christianity that developed in the first 4 centuries. Even TV preachers like Pat Robertson call the Pope the “Holy Father”.
American Catholics in the USA are a different breed. With such trends such as Pentecostalism the lines get blurred. This coupled with wedge issues further complicate the lines of difference. Premillennialism is every much a added recent interpretation that in many ways surpasses anything new the Catholics may or may not have added.
I tend to think the idea that Jesus was God is an innovation among others.
But if Catholics are not Christianity as well as Protestants then there is no Christianity, as we historically understand it.
All Christianities have the illusion that they go back to the beginning and that their traditions have been handed down to them from the beginning. But it seems that there were many Judaism(s) as well as many Christianities.

[melikio]

Many things which I intuitively understand as truth are being said here. And an additional factor with humankind, is that we tend to embrace the complex "differences" which may seem to justify our NOT getting along with one another.

Consider the following:

Race, financial status, religion political affiliations, observing various traditions or values etc., are all things which many use to separate themselves from one another.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that many of the problems which people perceive as being rooted in "religion", can actually be better understood and resolved via sociological examination rather than the purely religious approaches of many.

BIAS is real and occurs naturally within the minds of human beings; and it is important for those trying to get to the truth to accept that all of us are affected and influenced by it. People may have a view which is "right" to them, but that particular "right" view does not equate to being an absolutely "universal" truth for al other human beings. If people do not realize and acknowledge that such bias exists and affects us all, then every disagreement that comes up, has the potential to become the most massive problem; likely of greater proportions than they'll ultimately be able to handle as a person. The magnitude of all that increases exponentially, as more individuals are involved in the "disagreement"; THE ONLY ANTIDOTE I have seen is people deciding to step back/away so that "truth" can be drawn out of those things presented for "consideration". That is the meaning of "speaking the truth in LOVE" (to me). The problem with highly-biased individuals, is that they often have the agenda set to FORCE consideration or compliance to views; often having the practical effect of not getting along with other people. It's not "love", when the "truth" (as one views it) is FORCED upon other people.

I know there are exceptions (such as dealing with criminals and fighting physical wars), but the idea that PUSHING some religious view upon another person who either cannot or does not wish to "abide" it, is NOT LOVE. Love to me, is "gently" presenting one's views or beliefs for consideration, realizing that as good as they may be to live by personally, they should not forced or dumped upon those who have an alternative view of reality. And this basic rule of consideration can apply to any view from secular to religious, to foster good human relations and keep the peace. That is, many problems are resolved when it is realized that all people have different views, and that grace is like a shock absorber which helps us through our (unique) individual journies in this life. We help each other hopefully, because we see (for real) that it is GOOD. And that almost always takes religion from a set of rules memorized from something written, to positive behaviors which can benefit all of mankind.

-Mel-

[jjg]

The beef;

1. Sola scriptura

2. Sola Fide

3.Mary nonsense.

4. Prayers to saints

5. Revelations nonsense.

[melikio]

The beef;

1. Sola scriptura

2. Sola Fide

3.Mary nonsense.

4. Prayers to saints

5. Revelations nonsense.

These are only "beef" because people allow them to be. (Just like they do with homosexuality and so many other things.)

Live and let live, is more of a solution than it often seems to be.

-Mel-

[Confused]

The beef;

1. Sola scriptura

2. Sola Fide

3.Mary nonsense.

4. Prayers to saints

5. Revelations nonsense.

These don't negate any of Christs teaching do they? Do they in any way explicitly viloate His teachings?

[LightGrenade04]

What is the beef other Christian denominations have with the Catholics? What do you have in common? What are the disagreements?

I think the beef the Fundies (I say "Fundies" because the majority of Protestants aren't so extreme as to call Catholics "not real Christians" - I used to be Protestant and I never even considered that) seem to have with Catholics are the traditional elements of it. "Tradition" is a dirty word for Protestants for some reason. That and Catholics don't accept the Five Solas and their view of the Church is incompatible with what Protestants think it should be.

[Confused]

What is the beef other Christian denominations have with the Catholics? What do you have in common? What are the disagreements?

I think the beef the Fundies (I say "Fundies" because the majority of Protestants aren't so extreme as to call Catholics "not real Christians" - I used to be Protestant and I never even considered that) seem to have with Catholics are the traditional elements of it. "Tradition" is a dirty word for Protestants for some reason. That and Catholics don't accept the Five Solas and their view of the Church is incompatible with what Protestants think it should be.

Funny how everyone blames the fundamentalists, yet no one claims to be one. I am beginning to wonder if this group is an activist group aimed more against the government that people on this site have transformed to become the fall guy for everything that is wrong with Christianity.