can you fall from grace?

[zahndervan]

this has been a largely debated subject in my life lately so i thought i would ask all of you!



if you ask Jesus into your heart to be your Lord and Savior(aka getting saved) can you lose that salvation?

[McCulloch]

You might wish to review ongoing discussions

• Calvinism Vs Arminianism AND
• Once saved, always saved?

[r~]

Lucifer, the angel of light, was God’s favorite. Lucifer in turn loved God with all his heart and all his soul and all his mind and all his strength. But Lucifer loved God too much; he could not tolerate sins against his beloved God; he could not tolerate the sins of man. Therefore he took it upon himself to persecute the sins of man, not for God mind you, but for his own vanity. In so doing, he interfered with God’s own plan of free will and forgiveness of sins.

So it is that Lucifer fell from light and heaven and grace and became the beast of darkness. So it is that man falls from grace by following the beast in the persecution of sinners. Neither the beast nor his followers are able to accept that “Love your neighbor as yourself” is the greatest commandment of All. For you see, it is in the forgiveness of the sins of others that you show the love of God with all your heart.

Know then that it is in the persecution of sinners that the followers of the beast show their mark as they fall from grace.

ItS
r~

[BlindDidymus]

The early Christian Bishop St. Augustine of Hippo said that by the grace of God if he endured to his last breath, at the end of his life he hoped to be found a Christian.

Does this sound like somebody who believed that he could never fall from God's grace?

Forgive me for being brief but historically Christians have always believed that it is not only possible but easy to fall from grace. A Christian should be very careful to draw near to God and not away from Him.

Here is a short study from The Holy Bible for you on the subject:
~~~
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. – The Lord Jesus Christ in Saint Matthew 24:13

The above verse clearly shows that salvation is not simply once attained and kept forever or else there would be no need to endure. Here are a few New Testament verses which agree, demonstrate or teach likewise.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you… ye are fallen from grace.

The Acts 1:25 …Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

St. James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not… lest ye fall into condemnation.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth….

Second Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first…

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Second Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have know it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

St. Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when the hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Romans 11:22 …if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

First Corinthians 9:27 …least that by any means… I myself should be a castaway.

Philippians 2:12 …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition…

First Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he stand take heed lest he fall.

St. Matthew 10:22 … but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

St. Mark 13:13 …but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

First Timothy 3:2-6 A bishop then must be… 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen – Saint Jude 24&25
~~~

Hope that helped and please forgive the comments as it was copied straight from my files on doctrine.

[BlindDidymus]

The early Christian Bishop St. Augustine of Hippo said that by the grace of God if he endured to his last breath, at the end of his life he hoped to be found a Christian.

Does this sound like somebody who believed that he could never fall from God's grace?

Forgive me for being brief but historically Christians have always believed that it is not only possible but easy to fall from grace. A Christian should be very careful to draw near to God and not away from Him.

Here is a short study from The Holy Bible for you on the subject:
~~~
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. – The Lord Jesus Christ in Saint Matthew 24:13

The above verse clearly shows that salvation is not simply once attained and kept forever or else there would be no need to endure. Here are a few New Testament verses which agree, demonstrate or teach likewise.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you… ye are fallen from grace.

The Acts 1:25 …Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

St. James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not… lest ye fall into condemnation.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth….

Second Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first…

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Second Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have know it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

St. Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when the hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Romans 11:22 …if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

First Corinthians 9:27 …least that by any means… I myself should be a castaway.

Philippians 2:12 …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition…

First Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he stand take heed lest he fall.

St. Matthew 10:22 … but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

St. Mark 13:13 …but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

First Timothy 3:2-6 A bishop then must be… 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen – Saint Jude 24&25
~~~

Hope that helped and please forgive the comments as it was copied straight from my files on doctrine.

[Salt Agent]

There are thousands of people out there who say you can't fall from grace, can't ca 't be severed from Christ, can't depart from the faith, can't abandon the faith, make shipwreck of the faith, can't turn aside after believing, can't leave your first love, be vomited out of Christs mouth, or cannot be denied by Christ, and on an on. What you usuallly get is people who use all kinds of nonsense or circular logic such as follows. I am sure he means well, and he is probably my brother in Christ, but you notice that he doesn't give you any verses to support such a ludicrous notion. Maybe this was from the Grimm's book of fairy tales. "Lucifer loved God too much? What?

Lucifer, the angel of light, was God’s favorite. Lucifer in turn loved God with all his heart and all his soul and all his mind and all his strength. But Lucifer loved God too much; he could not tolerate sins against his beloved God; he could not tolerate the sins of man. Therefore he took it upon himself to persecute the sins of man, not for God mind you, but for his own vanity. In so doing, he interfered with God’s own plan of free will and forgiveness of sins."


Again, this is the kind of screwy fairytales that cause people to be confused.
A very common "argument" you will encounter is this kind of old, tired, logic --"Since we can't do anything to make, earn, or deserve our Salvation, we certainly can't do anything to lose it, forfeit it, or depart from it."

Just listen to this "logic" -- Since the Islamic Terrorists had nothing to do with building the Twin Towers, there is certainly no way they could do anything to destroy them.
"Also, since a dog or any other animal did nothing to make, tend, maintain or plant a garden, then there is certainly no way that they can harm it, or destroy it."

Another classic is the Pigpen Christian one, referring to the Prodigal Son in Luke chapter 15. They say "Once a son, always a Son. --The son was in sin, but still a son." This falls apart at the secular level and especially the spiritual. People lose, forfeit, and surrender their children, and all their parental rights, and adopted children have all the same rights and legal benefits including inheritance rights the same as birth children. The biggest problem is that you can't always simply explain spiritual truth with secular logic. Once a son -Always a Son, fits this perfectly. If this were true, then no one could ever be saved, because as both Calvinists and Arminians believe, we all are born under sin, and the Bible says that we were Sons of disobedience, and children of wrath, but we have been adopted by Christ. Also, in this passage, Christ says twice, that the son was dead and lost in his sins, and was found and made alive again. Also, there are a dozen or more specific people mentioned by name who comitted apostasy, fell from grace, or departed from the faith. How can you say it is impossible when Scripture lists people who were known to the audience/reader? King Saul I Samuel 15:11; David, the Israelites, Hosea's wife, Gomer, Solomon, Amaziah, Judas, --Matt 26:14-16, hymenaeus and Philetus, 2 Tim. 2:17,18, Demas 2 Tim. 4:10; Peter,Certain men, Jude 4.

It is really not that complicated. There are no verses that say clearly and explicitly that you cannot abandon the faith, depart from the faith, fall from grace, turn aside after believing, deny the faith and be worse than an unbeliever, be blotted out of the book of life.
It is as if Christ and Paul and other new Testament writers are trying to make it so clear, that no one could misunderstand, or wonder. It appears all through the New Testament, and is the theme of multiple parables, -The Lost Son, the Lost Sheep, the Sower and the seeds, and is the theme of multiple books, either falling away[apostasy] or the necessity to abide and warnings against not abiding in Christ. Hosea and I John, and it is a recurring theme peppered through the Pastoral letters, --Instructions to the young pastors to teach new believers. "If at first the Bible makes Literal sense, seek no other sense, or it will be nonsense."

The biggest reason people don't accept this or believe this is not lack of scripture, but that it condemns their "license to sin" or "Fire insurance" lifestyle, or it also means that other things they believed are also false- like Calvinism's point of Limited atonement and irresistible Grace.
Here are a few clear verses to look up and consider. I Tim. 4:1; I Tim 4:8,12,15, I Tim. 6:10, 20, 21; II Tim 2:11-12; II Tim 4:3,4; Titus 1:13,14; John 6:60,66; Acts 1:17,25; I Cor 15:1,2; Rev 3:14-17; Psalm 69:28;Gal 4:9-11; Gal 5:4. Then just

The believer who is walking in Christ is totally safe and secure, and has no reason to fear. The ones who are threatened by this are those people who are not hearing, following, and obeying Christ's commands.