Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

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Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

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Post by placebofactor »

If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

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Post by myth-one.com »

placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm

If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever would include gentiles.

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #3

Post by placebofactor »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:28 pm
placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm

If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever would include gentiles.
Very good, but that would be the opening statement of how a gentile could be saved. The statement does not give any details concerning his death, burial, and resurrection. When John 3:16 was written, all the Jews had to do was believe that Jesus was the Son of God. The Gentile world had no concept of Jewish law or sacrifice, and neither did they have any knowledge of Israel's God, Jehovah, let alone the "Son of God."

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #4

Post by myth-one.com »

placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:54 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:28 pm
placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm

If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever would include gentiles.
Very good, but that would be the opening statement of how a gentile could be saved. The statement does not give any details concerning his death, burial, and resurrection. When John 3:16 was written, all the Jews had to do was believe that Jesus was the Son of God. The Gentile world had no concept of Jewish law or sacrifice, and neither did they have any knowledge of Israel's God, Jehovah, let alone the "Son of God."
There is only one thing any human has to do to be saved from the wages of their sins, and that is to accept Jesus as his or her Savior form the wages of his or her sins.

And every human who ever lived will make their individual choice to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior. The vast majority will make their choice after being resurrected as humans at the second resurrection.

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #5

Post by 1213 »

placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?
I believe those who are his "sheep" will understand his voice. Not all are.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish to the age, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28

Be saved can mean two things. That sins are forgiven, which is freely offered to all humans. And the second is to get back to life. Eternal life is promised only for righteous. Therefore the key to get the life is to become righteous, be born anew as Jesus says.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63
Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, nei-ther can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.
Matt. 7:17-20

(He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Isra-el. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.
Heb. 8:10-12 (Jer. 31:31-34))

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #6

Post by placebofactor »

1213 wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:07 am
placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?
I believe those who are his "sheep" will understand his voice. Not all are.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish to the age, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28

Be saved can mean two things. That sins are forgiven, which is freely offered to all humans. And the second is to get back to life. Eternal life is promised only for righteous. Therefore the key to get the life is to become righteous, be born anew as Jesus says.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63
Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, nei-ther can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.
Matt. 7:17-20

(He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Isra-el. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.
Heb. 8:10-12 (Jer. 31:31-34))
Correct me if I'm wrong: The Christian church is never called sheep. The Jews are called sheep, but never the Christian church. We are the bride of Christ. Gentiles never went astray; the Jews did. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus is never called the shepherd of the church, only the shepherd of the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel." The last time you see the word shepherd is in 1 Peter. Peter was writing to the Jews who were strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia."

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

placebofactor wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 9:37 am ...
Correct me if I'm wrong: The Christian church is never called sheep. The Jews are called sheep, but never the Christian church. We are the bride of Christ. Gentiles never went astray; the Jews did. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus is never called the shepherd of the church, only the shepherd of the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel." The last time you see the word shepherd is in 1 Peter. Peter was writing to the Jews who were strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia."
Interesting, you think you have not gone astray? I think that would mean you have never sinned.

By what I see, gentiles have gone astray, they have lived without God. And they went astray long before Jesus came on earth. And it means they have rejected God and worshiped other gods.

I understand these scriptures so that all disciples of Jesus ("Christians") can be called sheep of Jesus, because Jesus is their shepherd who guides them and protects them. But, I don't see it a big problem, if you don't agree with this.

But when the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. And before Him shall be gathered all the nations; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And indeed He will set the sheep off His right, but the goats off the left hand . Then the King will say to those on His right, Come, the blessed of My Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt. 25:31-34
I am the Good Shepherd! The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. But the hireling, not even being a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and forsakes the sheep and flees. And the wolf seizes them, and scatters the sheep. But the hireling flees because he is a hireling, and there is not a care to him concerning the sheep. I am the Good Shepherd, and I know those that are Mine, and I am known by the ones that are Mine. Even as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must also lead those, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock, one Shepherd.
John 10:11-16

And sad thing is that I think many Christians have gone astray, they have rejected Jesus and his word. But, maybe that shows they never were really sheep of Jesus.

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #8

Post by placebofactor »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:18 pm
placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:54 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:28 pm
placebofactor wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm

If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Whosoever would include gentiles.
Very good, but that would be the opening statement of how a gentile could be saved. The statement does not give any details concerning his death, burial, and resurrection. When John 3:16 was written, all the Jews had to do was believe that Jesus was the Son of God. The Gentile world had no concept of Jewish law or sacrifice, and neither did they have any knowledge of Israel's God, Jehovah, let alone the "Son of God."
There is only one thing any human has to do to be saved from the wages of their sins, and that is to accept Jesus as his or her Savior from the wages of his or her sins.

And every human who ever lived will make their individual choice to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior. The vast majority will make their choice after being resurrected as humans at the second resurrection.
I agree with everything you say, but that was not the question. Here's the question: If I, as a Gentile during Christ's earthly ministry, and I knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #9

Post by placebofactor »

1213 wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 1:33 am
placebofactor wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 9:37 am ...
Correct me if I'm wrong: The Christian church is never called sheep. The Jews are called sheep, but never the Christian church. We are the bride of Christ. Gentiles never went astray; the Jews did. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus is never called the shepherd of the church, only the shepherd of the "Lost sheep of the house of Israel." The last time you see the word shepherd is in 1 Peter. Peter was writing to the Jews who were strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia."
Thanks for your comments: You wrote, "Interesting, you think you have not gone astray? I think that would mean you have never sinned."

Sure, we all sin, but a true Christian will never deny the Lord. The Jews, except for a small remnant denied Jesus, and in so doing, they crucified Him. Jesus was the Jews' Messiah, not the Gentiles' Christ. We Gentiles were invited in when Paul came on the scene seven years after the Lord's resurrection. It was then we were grafted into the promises.

You wrote, "By what I see, gentiles have gone astray, they have lived without God."

Gentiles who live without God were not Christians, they never strayed from the shepherd of the flock because they were never a part of the flock.

You wrote, "And they went astray long before Jesus came on earth. And it means they have rejected God and worshiped other gods.'

You're taking this back to the flood, but God's promises for salvation began with Abraham and Moses, the fathers of the Jews, 300 years after the flood. They were given the promises and the law, not Gentiles. Four thousand years ago, the Jews were made a chosen vessel unto the Lord, not Gentiles.

I understand these scriptures so that all disciples of Jesus ("Christians") can be called sheep of Jesus,

"Would you call your husband or wife a sheep that follows you, the shepherd? If I said to my wife, "You are my sheep," her response would have been with a frying pan.

You wrote, "because Jesus is their shepherd who guides them and protects them. But, I don't see it a big problem, if you don't agree with this. But when the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. And before Him shall be gathered all the nations; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And indeed He will set the sheep off His right, but the goats off the left hand . Then the King will say to those on His right, Come, the blessed of My Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt. 25:31-34

Again, Jesus is speaking to his disciples who were Jews, and before his death.

I am the Good Shepherd! The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. But the hireling, not even being a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and forsakes the sheep and flees. And the wolf seizes them, and scatters the sheep. But the hireling flees because he is a hireling, and there is not a care to him concerning the sheep. I am the Good Shepherd, and I know those that are Mine, and I am known by the ones that are Mine. Even as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must also lead those, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock, one Shepherd.
John 10:11-16

Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees in John 10:11.

You wrote, "And sad thing is that I think many Christians have gone astray, they have rejected Jesus and his word. But, maybe that shows they never were really sheep of Jesus."

Correct, they never were sheep but wolves. I enjoyed your comments.

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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?

Post #10

Post by placebofactor »

[Replying to placebofactor in post #9]

The four gospels spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God, that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah the Jews had been waiting for, and that Jesus, their King, was ready to bring in the kingdom. But the Jews rejected him, then killed him. But not all the Jews were set aside; that’s when Jesus commissioned Paul to bring the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles.

To be set aside is not to be cast out.
Romans 11:1, "I (Paul) say then, Hath God cast away his (the Jews) people? God forbid. Verse 2, "God hath not cast away his people which He foreknew."

Romans 11:5, "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant (of Jews) according to the election of grace."

There are clear differences between Paul's Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John. Paul's focus concerned the finished work of the cross and the gospel of grace. Never did Paul speak of having to keep the law, or any form of legalism being required; nor did he ever teach the gospel of the kingdom.

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