The Son of God

[Ross]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

[beechan]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

The beginning verses of Gospel of John, Jesus is always the Son of God. Jesus did not become Son of God through the virgin birth.

[Ross]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

The beginning verses of Gospel of John, Jesus is always the Son of God. Jesus did not become Son of God through the virgin birth.

Thank you for your statement, but as I understand the verses in John, the pre-incarnate Jesus is referred to as The Word of God not The Son of God.
Perhaps you can add a little clarification?

[Capbook]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

The beginning verses of Gospel of John, Jesus is always the Son of God. Jesus did not become Son of God through the virgin birth.

Thank you for your statement, but as I understand the verses in John, the pre-incarnate Jesus is referred to as The Word of God not The Son of God.
Perhaps you can add a little clarification?

Before Jesus incarnation He was prophesied as a child to be born "a son" and His named will be called the Mighty God. (Isa 9:6)
Jesus in the likeness of man did not count equality to God to be grasped because He retained it.(Phil 2:6)
And all as much that the Father has is of Jesus, equality in all and also in the state of being God. See original Greek below.(John 16:15)


Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government   will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Jhn 16:15 All  as much as  has  the  father is mine.  On account of  this   I said   that,  Of  mine  he takes,   and  shall announce   to you. G1473

Jhn 16:15 All G3956  as much as G3745  [3has G2192  1the G3588  2father] G3962  is mine. G1699 G1510.2.3  On account of G1223  this G3778  I said G2036  that, G3754  Of G1537 G3588  mine G1699  he takes, G2983  and G2532  shall announce G312  to
you. G1473

Jhn 16:15 παντα G3956  οσα G3745  εχει G2192  ο G3588  πατηρ G3962  εμα εστι G1699 G1510.2.3  δια G1223  τουτο G3778  ειπον G2036  οτι G3754  εκ G1537  του G3588  εμου G1699  λαμβανει G2983  και G2532  αναγγελει G312  υμιν G1473

Jhn 16:15 πάντα ὅσα ἔχει ὁ πατὴρ ἐμά ἐστι· διὰ τοῦτο εἶπον ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ ἐμοῦ λήψεται καὶ ἀναγγελεῖ ὑμῖν

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Ross in post #1]

Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God?

Yes,, the Word - who is Jaheshua and who existed before coming to earth as a man - was/is the Son of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. Well, Christ is the one who had flesh and dwelt among us.

Also here:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 1 John 1:1

Who is it that they saw with their eyes and touched with their hands? Christ Jaheshua, the Son of God, also the Word of God, and the Life.

Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

Well:

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2

If God made the universe through His Son, then Christ was His Son long before being born as a man. Right?

For as long as He has existed, He has been God's Son. He was born from God.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Ross]

Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government   will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

This verse in its entirety is a prophesy. The "child is born" is a prophesy, and so "a son is given" is part of the prophesy.

I cannot see anything in the verse that indicates a 'son' before the birth other than per-ordination.

[Ross]

For as long as He has existed, He has been God's Son. He was born from God.

Could you please explain this? You appear to address 'Son of God' as being born from God.

[Ross]

the Word - who is Jaheshua and who existed before coming to earth as a man - was/is the Son of God.

The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. Well, Christ is the one who had flesh and dwelt among us.

And yet the Jesus was not called or was Jesus or the messiah Christ until he became a man.
While I do not doubt the pre existence of the Lord or that he is God, I wish to challenge the premise that he is eternally the Son of God except in pre-ordination or prophesy.

[Ross]

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2

The reference in the verse is "of these last days", the time of Jesus' presence on earth. He was indeed "The Son" at that time. He also made the universe with his Father "in the past" which was a time long before.

To insist the verse in its entirety is specific in time specification is manipulation. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

[beechan]

Thank you for your statement, but as I understand the verses in John, the pre-incarnate Jesus is referred to as The Word of God not The Son of God.
Perhaps you can add a little clarification?

Look like you are saying Donald Trump is NOT President of US.