Progressive Revelation

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placebofactor
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Progressive Revelation

Post #1

Post by placebofactor »

The article is long, but I believe you will enjoy it. No questions, but I am sure there will be many comments, for and against.
Before the creation the first name we find in the Bible concerning God is, Elohim, “In the beginning God (Elohim)---.”

In Genesis 1, we equated the Hebrew Elohim a plural word with the Triune Godhead, Triune pointing to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The creation was not without witnesses, for there were three.
Acts 14:17, “He left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.”

From Genesis 1:2 and forward, we find the three-letter word, “God” singular. God meaning the Creator, the Almighty, omniscient, omnipresent, pure, and perfect being, who preserves and governs all things. The self-existent, unoriginated, independent, and eternal Jehovah, who has produced all things. Revelation 1:8, Jesus said, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, --- which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” He is the pure and perfect Spirit, he is known and clearly distinguished by the vast and stupendous works which he has made.

In Genesis 2:4 we come to another name for Deity. It's no longer “God” alone, but now, the “LORD God.” Note the title “LORD” is all in uppercase. Throughout chapter 1, He is called, “God,” but now in Genesis 2, He is called the “LORD God.” And who is this, LORD God? He is Jehovah, the Son of the Father in heaven, better known to us as Jesus. These titles serve a purpose; the LORD God knew there would one day be a plan implemented for our redemption. He saw the foolishness of the people, well before His coming in the flesh. He would not only need a plan of redemption but also someone who could communicate directly with men. So, what did the LORD do? He came down from His throne in heaven to dwell among men. 1 Timothy 3:16, K.J.B. “God (Jehovah) was manifest (appeared or showed himself openly) in the flesh.”

Philippians 2:7, He Jesus “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant; and was made in the likeness of men.” Matthew 1:23, “And they (the Jews) shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is God with us.” Also, John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." In verse 14, "And the Word was made flesh..." Jesus put into action His plan of redemption.

In Genesis 12, about the year 1900 B.C. Jehovah is seen intrinsically as the God of Abraham. He will deal specifically with the nation of Israel and its people. So, when the Bible reads, “The God of Abraham,” and “The God of Isaac,” it’s referring to Jehovah! LORD and Jehovah are always synonymous. Throughout Scripture, we find that Jehovah is the God of all. Abraham was born a gentile, and in Genesis 14:18, Abraham addresses God as the Most-high God. So, whenever you see the Hebrew term “The Most-high God,” it's making a point that God is, “The God of all.”

Moving forward in Genesis, we find Jehovah becomes everything the nation of Israel could ever hope for in their spiritual and physical needs.
Genesis 22:14: takes place about the year 1850 B.C. As time passes, we find Abraham is well acquainted with Jehovah; but now, Jehovah has an added title behind it, Jehovah-Jireh. No one knew this name until then, it means, “the LORD will provide.” The LORD provided the sacrifice when He spared Isaac, Abraham’s son. God held back Abraham's hand and kept him from sacrificing his son Isaac. Question, what did Abraham see in the thicket when he turned around? … a ram caught by the horns in a thicket! So, Abraham called Him, Jehovah-Jireh because Jehovah provided the sacrifice.

About the year 1320 B.C., Israel came out of Egypt under Moses, the first thing God promised them (Israel) was, if they were obedient, He would be their healing. So, he is called Jehovah-ropheka, meaning, “He who would be their Healer.” Jehovah would be their spiritual Healer, as well as their physical healer. When the Jews were in Egypt, He said, "None of these diseases that were in Egypt will come upon you."

In the year, 1320 B.C., we read the name Jehovah-Nissi in Exodus 15:17. Israel had come up against their first opposition - the Amalekites. Having left Egypt, they were on their way to Sinai and were fighting the Amalekites. As long as Moses held his arms up, the battle went for Israel. As soon as they came down, the battle went against Israel. Who came to help Moses? Aaron and Hur held up Moses' arms until the battle was won. When the fight was over, they declared that God was their Jehovah-Nissi. He was, “Their Banner,” and as long as the banner was lifted to heaven, the Jewish fighters pressed on.

Around the year 1160 B.C., we come to another title for God, Jehovah-Shalom, which in Hebrew means “peace.” It was Gideon who first received this name for God. Israel had come to a point of decline. The Jews were going after false gods - and the Midianites from the east were overrunning their crops and taking their children captive. It was then, that Israel began to cry to Jehovah for help, so the LORD raised up Gideon. He told Gideon, that the only way to achieve peace was to return to Jehovah and defeat the Midianites with His help; then, they could have “Shalom,” meaning “peace.”

Now we come to, Jehovah-tsidkenu – “He is our Righteousness.” The Jews had nothing without Him, so He would one day be all the righteousness Israel would ever need in Jesus Christ.

About 1000 B.C. in Psalms 23, we read the word “roi,” in the Hebrew it means “Shepherd.” "The Lord is my Shepherd." So, in the Hebrew, “Shepard,” is Jehovah-roi; “I am your Shepherd.” Again, this was an inherent need for the Nation of Israel. Jesus said, John 10:14, “I am the good shepherd,”

The seventh title for Jehovah God is found in Jeremiah 23, it’s, “Jehovah-shammah,” Jeremiah was written between 627 and 586 B.C. This name means, “The LORD is there.” This name refers to the setting up of His kingdom, He will be present, as Revelation 19, “KING of KINGS, and LORD of LORDS.”

The LORD does everything in sevens; therefore, the seven explicit needs of Israel have been met by the seven-fold operation of Jehovah's names.

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

placebofactor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:53 am The article is long, but I believe you will enjoy it. No questions, but I am sure there will be many comments, for and against.
Before the creation the first name we find in the Bible concerning God is, Elohim, “In the beginning God (Elohim)---.”

In Genesis 1, we equated the Hebrew Elohim a plural word
The word Elohim can mean also just one God. And because Jesus tells there is only one true God, who is greater than him, I think it would be wrong to say there are more true Gods than one.

To you it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh he is God; there is none else besides him.
Deut. 4:35
Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
Mark 12:29-30
How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John 5:44
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
placebofactor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:53 am In Genesis 2:4 we come to another name for Deity. It's no longer “God” alone, but now, the “LORD God.” Note the title “LORD” is all in uppercase. ...
I think it is good to notice that in Genesis 2:4 the word "Lord" is actually Jehovah, or Yahweh.

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #3

Post by Capbook »

1213 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:26 am
placebofactor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:53 am The article is long, but I believe you will enjoy it. No questions, but I am sure there will be many comments, for and against.
Before the creation the first name we find in the Bible concerning God is, Elohim, “In the beginning God (Elohim)---.”

In Genesis 1, we equated the Hebrew Elohim a plural word
The word Elohim can mean also just one God. And because Jesus tells there is only one true God, who is greater than him, I think it would be wrong to say there are more true Gods than one.

To you it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh he is God; there is none else besides him.
Deut. 4:35
Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
Mark 12:29-30
How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John 5:44
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
placebofactor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:53 am In Genesis 2:4 we come to another name for Deity. It's no longer “God” alone, but now, the “LORD God.” Note the title “LORD” is all in uppercase. ...
I think it is good to notice that in Genesis 2:4 the word "Lord" is actually Jehovah, or Yahweh.
In response to your statement I colored blue above.
Jesus and the Father are one in the state of God. (Col 2:9)
Just like you and your son if you have, are one in the state of human.
Bible Lexicon defined "Godhead" in Greek "theotes" as the state of being God.

θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #4

Post by 1213 »

Capbook wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 4:25 pm ...
In response to your statement I colored blue above.
Jesus and the Father are one in the state of God. (Col 2:9)...
Also disciples of Jesus are one with God and God dwells in them.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11
that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may be-lieve that you sent me.
John 17:21

Jesus is the temple of God, according to the Bible. And so are also disciples of Jesus.

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,
Col. 2:9
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Fa-ther who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:10-11

For we are ... God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another builds on it. But let each man be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ…
…Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that God’s Spirit lives in you?

1 Cor. 3:9-11, 16
Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected was made the head of the corner. This was from the Lord. It is marvelous in our eyes’? “Therefore I tell you, God’s Kingdom will be taken away from you and will be given to a nation producing its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it will fall, it will scatter him as dust.”
Matt. 21:42-44 (Ps. 118:22-23)

If God lives in Jesus, how can it be said he is the God? If Jesus would be God then, why would not disciples of Jesus also be God, when God lives also in them?

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #5

Post by Capbook »

1213 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:30 am
Capbook wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 4:25 pm ...
In response to your statement I colored blue above.
Jesus and the Father are one in the state of God. (Col 2:9)...
Also disciples of Jesus are one with God and God dwells in them.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11
that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may be-lieve that you sent me.
John 17:21

Jesus is the temple of God, according to the Bible. And so are also disciples of Jesus.

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,
Col. 2:9
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Fa-ther who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:10-11

For we are ... God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another builds on it. But let each man be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ…
…Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that God’s Spirit lives in you?

1 Cor. 3:9-11, 16
Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected was made the head of the corner. This was from the Lord. It is marvelous in our eyes’? “Therefore I tell you, God’s Kingdom will be taken away from you and will be given to a nation producing its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it will fall, it will scatter him as dust.”
Matt. 21:42-44 (Ps. 118:22-23)

If God lives in Jesus, how can it be said he is the God? If Jesus would be God then, why would not disciples of Jesus also be God, when God lives also in them?
Who do you think resurrect Jesus body in the verse you quoted above I colored red?
Do Jesus was wrong saying John 2:19-21?

So, your only basis that Jesus is not God because the Father lives in Him like the human disciples?
Were JWs not being taught to visit Bible lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words?
Yes, you quote Col 2:9 word "deity" in Greek "theotes" which means the state of being God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

θεότης G2320 theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #6

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Capbook wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:10 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:30 am ...
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21...
Who do you think resurrect Jesus body in the verse you quoted above I colored red?...
Jesus told he spoke what God commanded hims to speak. So, were they words from God, or was he speaking of his own?

...The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works....
John 14:10-14
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.
John 12:49-50
Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #7

Post by Capbook »

1213 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:28 am
Capbook wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:10 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:30 am ...
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21...
Who do you think resurrect Jesus body in the verse you quoted above I colored red?...
Jesus told he spoke what God commanded hims to speak. So, were they words from God, or was he speaking of his own?

...The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works....
John 14:10-14
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.
John 12:49-50
Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

Jesus speaks of His own. Was Jesus wrong when He said John 5:37?
As Jesus had the power to resurrect Himself and so is the Spirit and the Father. The Bible reveals that the three person of the Trinity had the power to resurrect.
Yes, in the state of humanity Jesus humbled Himself, obedient to the Father until death even on the cross.


Php 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, having become obedient until death, even the death of a cross.

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #8

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Having "the form of God" does not imply equality with God. God cannot be encapsulated simply as a "form" and nothing more. The Almighty possesses numerous attributes and qualities that are unparalleled; the form merely represents his existence: as spirit, not "physical".

God's unique attributes include his supreme position in the hierarchy of authority throughout the universe. God stands above all possible positions of authority. Indeed, any existing authority is granted and permitted by God. This is his exclusive right, demonstrating the Majesty of the Universe, as shown to Nebuchadnezzar.

Another authority unique to Him is the control over time and the fulfillment of all things according to His very own purpose. In the Book of Acts, the resurrected Jesus, before ascending to heaven, informed his disciples that the Father alone has control over the times. Jehovah's very name embodies his power to accomplish whatever is necessary at the appropriate time. While other beings may exert some control over certain matters, they can only do so with God's permission. Therefore, regardless of who might be called "savior," it is ineffective without God's prior approval, the Savior per excellence. God himself gave Jesus as Savior.

Additionally, God's omniscience is unparalleled. While on earth, Jesus acknowledged that he did not know the timing of God's final judgment on humanity. This indicates that there is knowledge/information exclusively held by God.

I'm sure we can all identify some other quality/attribute that belongs exclusively to the Father as his prerogative, uniquely the Father’s privilege..

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #9

Post by Capbook »

Bible_Student wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:09 pm Having "the form of God" does not imply equality with God. God cannot be encapsulated simply as a "form" and nothing more. The Almighty possesses numerous attributes and qualities that are unparalleled; the form merely represents his existence: as spirit, not "physical".

God's unique attributes include his supreme position in the hierarchy of authority throughout the universe. God stands above all possible positions of authority. Indeed, any existing authority is granted and permitted by God. This is his exclusive right, demonstrating the Majesty of the Universe, as shown to Nebuchadnezzar.

Another authority unique to Him is the control over time and the fulfillment of all things according to His very own purpose. In the Book of Acts, the resurrected Jesus, before ascending to heaven, informed his disciples that the Father alone has control over the times. Jehovah's very name embodies his power to accomplish whatever is necessary at the appropriate time. While other beings may exert some control over certain matters, they can only do so with God's permission. Therefore, regardless of who might be called "savior," it is ineffective without God's prior approval, the Savior per excellence. God himself gave Jesus as Savior.

Additionally, God's omniscience is unparalleled. While on earth, Jesus acknowledged that he did not know the timing of God's final judgment on humanity. This indicates that there is knowledge/information exclusively held by God.

I'm sure we can all identify some other quality/attribute that belongs exclusively to the Father as his prerogative, uniquely the Father’s privilege..
Who being in the essential form, the incommunicable nature of God from eternity. As he was afterward in the form of man; real God, as real man. Counted it no act of robbery, that is the precise meaning of the words, no invasion of another's prerogative, but his own strict and unquestionable right. To be equal with God, the word here translated equal, occurs in the adjective form five or six times in the New Testament, Mat 20:12; Luk 6:34; Jhn 5:18; Act 11:17; Rev 21:16. In all which places it expresses not a bare resemblance, but a real and proper equality. It here implies both the fulness and the supreme height of the Godhead; to which are opposed, he emptied and he humbled himself.

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Re: Progressive Revelation

Post #10

Post by Bible_Student »

Jesus calls his Father GOD (John 17:3; 20:17; Rev. 3:12) . He also calls him "Lord of heaven and earth."

It is clear that Jesus does not support Trinitarian thought.

PS: If you quote my posts, talk about what I say in the quoted post. Thanks.

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