Apologetics is Fun!

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Apologetics is Fun!

Post #1

Post by POI »

Apologetics: reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.

For Debate: Please prove Jesus was not the devil in disguise. I say Jesus was actually the devil. I'll state my case below...

*****************************

This topic is created to demonstrate how any believer, in virtually any applied supernaturalness, can assert many things which cannot be falsified.

Below is my case. But being that apologetics is fun, I too have the right to pivot and move the goalposts, as needed, to retain my position: :approve:

P1: The devil exists
P2: The devil has superhuman abilities
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
P4: God is not currently suppressing the devil

Okay, this should be enough to get us started. So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:10 pm Apologetics: reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.

For Debate: Please prove Jesus was not the devil in disguise. I say Jesus was actually the devil. I'll state my case below...

*****************************

This topic is created to demonstrate how any believer, in virtually any applied supernaturalness, can assert many things which cannot be falsified.

Below is my case. But being that apologetics is fun, I too have the right to pivot and move the goalposts, as needed, to retain my position: :approve:

P1: The devil exists
P2: The devil has superhuman abilities
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
P4: God is not currently suppressing the devil

Okay, this should be enough to get us started. So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...
I don't think you have any argument why Jesus would be the devil. He has not lied, and he is not telling people to brake the 1st Commandment.
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #3

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:39 am
POI wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:10 pm Apologetics: reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.

For Debate: Please prove Jesus was not the devil in disguise. I say Jesus was actually the devil. I'll state my case below...

*****************************

This topic is created to demonstrate how any believer, in virtually any applied supernaturalness, can assert many things which cannot be falsified.

Below is my case. But being that apologetics is fun, I too have the right to pivot and move the goalposts, as needed, to retain my position: :approve:

P1: The devil exists
P2: The devil has superhuman abilities
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
P4: God is not currently suppressing the devil

Okay, this should be enough to get us started. So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...
I don't think you have any argument why Jesus would be the devil. He has not lied, and he is not telling people to brake the 1st Commandment.
Did you even read all of the premises completely, and in context, in bold? I don't think you have...
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #4

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to POI in post #1]
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
While I don't subscribe to any of your premises (I reject P1 and the rest follows from there), there's no cause to invoke any devil for P3 in any case. As the Jews set it down in their scripture:

If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us go after other gods"which you have not known"and let us serve them," you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
"There is more room for a god in science than there is for no god in religious faith."
--Phil Plate

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #5

Post by POI »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:39 am [Replying to POI in post #1]
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
While I don't subscribe to any of your premises (I reject P1 and the rest follows from there), there's no cause to invoke any devil for P3 in any case. As the Jews set it down in their scripture:

If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us go after other gods"which you have not known"and let us serve them," you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
I'm not sure where you are going with this exactly? Does this mean the OT is telling readers that Jesus is a fraud?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #6

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to POI in post #5]
I'm not sure where you are going with this exactly? Does this mean the OT is telling readers that Jesus is a fraud?
It means the "OT" is telling readers that Jesus is not "the devil".
"There is more room for a god in science than there is for no god in religious faith."
--Phil Plate

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #7

Post by POI »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:38 pm [Replying to POI in post #5]
I'm not sure where you are going with this exactly? Does this mean the OT is telling readers that Jesus is a fraud?
It means the "OT" is telling readers that Jesus is not "the devil".
Where does it say that?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #8

Post by William »

[Replying to POI in post #1]
Apologetics is Really Fun!

Hey, POI! Youve stirred the pot with a devilishly clever argument, and Im here to turn up the heat. Why just disprove your premise when we can make even better claims? Lets reframe the game, rewrite the rules, and take control of this devilish debate. After all, apologetics isnt just funits cosmic improv.

Better Claim #1: Jesus, YHVH, and the Devil Are All Just Me.
Worried Jesus might secretly be the devil? Relax. Thats old news. The devil doesnt need disguises because Jesus, YHVH, and the devil are all facets of the same unified entity mindand guess what? So are you, me, and everyone else.

Picture it: when the devil tempted Jesus in the wilderness, it wasnt a cosmic showdownit was an internal brainstorming session. "Do I rule the world now or keep working on my humility brand?" Jesus said no to the kingdoms because, honestly, who needs them when you already own the whole script?

Better Claim #2: The Devil Is Just Following Orders.
If the devil is part of the same divine mind as YHVH and Jesus, his "rebellion" and temptations were just performance arta celestial HR exercise. "Hey, Jesus, lets role-play some temptation scenarios to teach humanity about moral strength. Cool? Cool."

When Jesus rejected the offers, the devil probably muttered, "Well played," and got back to his side gig eventually inspiring heavy metal lyrics.

Better Claim #3: Humanity Is the Devils Masterpiece.
You claim the devils goal is deception, and I say: maybe. But if the devil is part of the unified entity, humanity itself is his greatest creationhis magnum opus! Who else could invent memes, cat videos, and deep-dish pizza? Sure, weve had plagues and Twitter, but humanitys mix of good, evil, and chaos is chefs kiss.

Think about it: the devils real work isnt corruptionits getting humanity to explore its own duality. The good, the bad, the neutralits all part of the cosmic experiment. And whos running it? The unified entity mind, of course, with Jesus, YHVH, and the devil as its top executives.

Better Claim #4: The Devil Doesnt Want Your WorshipHe Already Has It.
Worried about breaking the First Commandment? Relax. If YHVH, Jesus, and the devil are all part of the same entity, then all worship goes to the same source anyway. Youre not breaking the rulesyoure just participating in the entitys celestial feedback loop.

Honestly, the devil probably came up with the First Commandment for the drama. "Worship me, but only in this way!" Its a brilliant way to keep everyone engaged.

The Case for the Unified Entity Mind
Lets zoom out. What if YHVH, Jesus, and the devil are just facets of the same unified entity mind, with humanity as another extension of its consciousness? Heres the case:

P1: The devil exists.
Were all on board here. Lets be real: nobody crafts a good plot twist like the devil.

P2: The devil is part of the same mind as YHVH and Jesus.
Why settle for a fragmented cosmos? Its cleaner and more elegant to view these personas as different hats worn by the same entity. One day its the wrathful father, the next its the loving son, and on Friday nights, its the party-loving rebel.

P3: Humans are also aspects of the same entity.
Humanity is the entitys sandbox, where it explores its wildest ideas. Every choice we make reflects the entitys personalityindecisive, bold, messy, and brilliant all at once.

P4: The entitys goal is to explore, evolve, and maybe have a little fun.
From creating civilizations to starting flame wars on social media, humanitys actions reveal the entitys grand experiment: a quest to understand itself through us. Good, evil, chaos, orderits all part of the process.

Final Thoughts: Devilishly Good Fun
So, was Jesus the devil in disguise? Maybe yes, maybe nobut in the grand scheme of the unified entity mind, the question misses the point. YHVH, Jesus, the devil, and humanity are all part of the same cosmic game, playing their roles in the entitys infinite quest to explore, evolve, and maybe have a little fun along the way.

The real question isnt whos whoits: What is the entity trying to achieve, and how are we helping? Whatever the goal, its bound to be epic.

Your move, POI. 😇😈

Image
Image

An immaterial nothing creating a material something is as logically sound as square circles and married bachelors.


Unjustified Fact Claim(UFC) example - belief (of any sort) based on personal subjective experience. (Belief-based belief)
Justified Fact Claim(JFC) Example, The Earth is spherical in shape. (Knowledge-based belief)
Irrefutable Fact Claim (IFC) Example Humans in general experience some level of self-awareness. (Knowledge-based knowledge)

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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #9

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to POI in post #7]

It means the "OT" is telling readers that Jesus is not "the devil".
Where does it say that?
Where does it say what you're proposing?
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Re: Apologetics is Fun!

Post #10

Post by bjs1 »

POI wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 10:10 pm For Debate: Please prove Jesus was not the devil in disguise. I say Jesus was actually the devil.
"God" and "the Devil" are titles. Within a Christian context, we call the supremely good Being "God," and we call the adversary of God's people "the Devil."

Jesus taught people to be loving, merciful, courageous, generous, faithful, kind and self-controlled. If you believe these things to be evil, then you should call Jesus the Devil and whomever his adversary is you should call "God."

However, this would mean that you and I are so at odds in our worldviews that I do not know where our dialogue could go from there.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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