Democracy?

[Tcg]

.

In the past, the youth sang songs of protest. Today all we get is vapid pop songs. I guess we have to leave it up to the old guys to wake us up.



Why are we willing to give up our freedom to any totalitarian who promises comfort even though we know deep down it is a lie?


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

Today all we get is vapid pop songs. I guess we have to leave it up to the old guys to wake us up.

The old guys are dying. What did they actually do to "wake us up"?

Why are we willing to give up our freedom to any totalitarian who promises comfort even though we know deep down it is a lie?

Do you mean actual freedom or the old illusion of freedom once had?

What is the "deep down" thing you are referring to?

[Purple Knight]

Why are we willing to give up our freedom to any totalitarian who promises comfort even though we know deep down it is a lie?

Because people are scared. And that's not necessarily a bad reason. It's a balance. And that balance it completely out of whack.

It was Benjamin Franklin who said that he who gives up liberty for safety loses both and deserves neither.

I counter with, he who gives up safety for liberty loses both and deserves neither. (You know, because he's dead. If the dead deserve stuff we're bad at making good on that.)

I've gone through different phases in my life. Sometimes I envy the ivory tower Libertarians who can stick to their principles precisely because they have never had to apply them. But there is truth in that ivory tower, and that's that people scrambling for their lives and livelihoods do not advance morality, except incidentally. Those in comfort do. Those in comfort can worry about what they ought to do, and not where their next meal is coming from.

So should we give up liberty for safety? Absolutely if we have too much of the former and the latter is in short supply.

Giving up a tidbit of an endless ocean of liberty is called having and enforcing laws. Giving up a tidbit of an ocean of safety for some much-needed freedom is called liberty.

[Athetotheist]

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In the past, the youth sang songs of protest. Today all we get is vapid pop songs.

I'm fairly certain that the current music industry would slam the door in the face of anyone wanting to do anything to upset the corporate apple cart.

A couple of links to offer as gifts to the younger generation:





.....and one for us old-timers:

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

Why are we willing to give up our freedom to any totalitarian who promises comfort even though we know deep down it is a lie?

I believe it is because most folks do not realize that Trump is being backed by extremely wealthy self-proclaimed Christian nationalists, who are not about to let the Constitution get in their way. Most folks do not realize that Christians have been attempting to take over for some fifty years now, through what has been called "The Culture wars" and we are getting our behinds handed to us on a silver platter, and these Christian nationalists have had enough, and they are ready to be rid of democracy, because democracy is not allowing them the get what they want, and the ends now, justifies any means. The scary thing to me now is, I am mighty afraid they very well may have what it takes to do away with our democracy.

[brunumb]

I think democracy won the day and the US dodged a bullet.

How Democrats use immigration to swing the vote & how Trump stopped them ( with Amish & a squirrel):

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to brunumb in post #6]

All I can tell you is, I voted for Trump the first two times, and I have never, ever voted for a democrat until I voted this year, and I voted straight ticket democrat. I am not saying that our democracy will end, but it is a fact that Trump and company attempted to overthrow the 2020 election results. It is also a fact that the republican party is being overtaken by self-proclaimed Christian nationalists who intend to make this a Christian nation, and this will be impossible to do with the Constitution we now have. It is a fact that every Christian nationalist voted for Trump. It is my hope that the republican party loses, and continues to lose, until they rid themselves of these Christian nationalists. Although I am a conservative, and believe the conservative agenda is better for America, like Liz Cheney has said, "this nation has demonstrated it can survive bad policy (democrats) what it cannot survive are those who want to overthrow our democracy."

Maybe Trump does not intend to end democracy, but what I cannot figure out is why one who intends to keep democracy intact, would ever call into question the election results, until, and unless they had all the facts. In other words, it would seem one to the goals of those who want to see our democracy stand, would be to make sure the people had no reason to doubt the system. On the other hand, if one's goal is to get rid of the system, then it would seem you would do all you could to cause folks to lose faith in the system. I can assure you of this, the goal of the Christian nationalists is to be rid of our democracy, and the reason is, our democracy is getting in the way of allowing them to get what they want. So then, why do you suppose the Christian nationalists supported Trump?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to brunumb in post #6]

Non-citizens are not allowed to vote in federal elections.


Want an example of misinformation?

"THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS!! THEY'RE EATING THE CATS!!"




Where was the real trouble coming from?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #8]

Yeah! That is good stuff, and the thing is, Trump brought up the FACT that "they are eating the dogs, they are eating the cats" in the debate against Harris. You would have thought that Trump, (or at least someone on his team) would have done some fact checking before allowing him to make a fool of himself in the debate. The bottom line is it was the economy which worked against Harris, and I would agree with this, and would have voted against Harris, except for the fact that I understand the republican party has been overtaken by Christian nationalists who are telling us plainly that their aim is to do away with our democratic republic.

[marke]

[Replying to brunumb in post #6]

All I can tell you is, I voted for Trump the first two times, and I have never, ever voted for a democrat until I voted this year, and I voted straight ticket democrat. I am not saying that our democracy will end, but it is a fact that Trump and company attempted to overthrow the 2020 election results. It is also a fact that the republican party is being overtaken by self-proclaimed Christian nationalists who intend to make this a Christian nation, and this will be impossible to do with the Constitution we now have. It is a fact that every Christian nationalist voted for Trump. It is my hope that the republican party loses, and continues to lose, until they rid themselves of these Christian nationalists. Although I am a conservative, and believe the conservative agenda is better for America, like Liz Cheney has said, "this nation has demonstrated it can survive bad policy (democrats) what it cannot survive are those who want to overthrow our democracy."

Maybe Trump does not intend to end democracy, but what I cannot figure out is why one who intends to keep democracy intact, would ever call into question the election results, until, and unless they had all the facts. In other words, it would seem one to the goals of those who want to see our democracy stand, would be to make sure the people had no reason to doubt the system. On the other hand, if one's goal is to get rid of the system, then it would seem you would do all you could to cause folks to lose faith in the system. I can assure you of this, the goal of the Christian nationalists is to be rid of our democracy, and the reason is, our democracy is getting in the way of allowing them to get what they want. So then, why do you suppose the Christian nationalists supported Trump?

Millions of Americans were duped into believing the democrat lie that Trump and his followers committed sedition by questioning the imposible number of Biden votes in 2020.