How far have we fallen?

[Revelations won]

How Far Have We Fallen?

The apostle Paul gave the following prophesy and warning to us living in the last days:

2 Timothy 3:
1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are we living today in perilous times?

Has society largely forgotten to keep the Sabbath day holy?

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Best regards,
RW

[Miles]

How Far Have We Fallen?

The apostle Paul gave the following prophesy and warning to us living in the last days:

2 Timothy 3:
1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are we living today in perilous times?

Has society largely forgotten to keep the Sabbath day holy?

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Best regards,
RW

But weren''t the last days suppose to have already come and gone?

Jesus speaking:

Luke 21:25-28, 29-33
25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

29 And he told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. 31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

And just so there's no doubt about what is meant by "generation."

generation
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source: Oxford Languages

A failed prophesy for sure, and if Jesus couldn't get it right why believe Paul could?

.

[theophile]

And just so there's no doubt about what is meant by "generation."

generation
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source: Oxford Languages

A failed prophesy for sure, and if Jesus couldn't get it right why believe Paul could?

.

Do you think the gospel writers used the Oxford dictionary when they composed their stories? At least go to the source language if you're going to make an argument like that, and understand the full semantic range of the word.

In this case:
γενεᾱ́ (geneā́) f (genitive γενεᾶς);

• birth

• race, descent

• generation

• offspring

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B3%C ... ient_Greek

i.e., There is sufficient range here to think that by 'generation' Jesus meant more than those living at the time. Which doesn't mean you're wrong, but that it's not an open-shut case as you make it out.

[JehovahsWitness]

2 TIMOTHY 31-5 NWT

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Its hard to come to any other conclusion.

• Albuquerque woman accused of embezzling $175K from employer
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• Abusive parents who left daughter (9) with permanent brain damage get 14 years in prison
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• Family of Queensland woman killed by former partner call for national domestic violence database
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• US pastor accused of having sex with members sued after refusing to resign
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• Study holds warning on pandemic drinking
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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GENTILLE TIMES , LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *

*The Return of Christ

[Miles]

And just so there's no doubt about what is meant by "generation."

generation
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source: Oxford Languages

A failed prophesy for sure, and if Jesus couldn't get it right why believe Paul could?

.

Do you think the gospel writers used the Oxford dictionary when they composed their stories? At least go to the source language if you're going to make an argument like that, and understand the full semantic range of the word.

In this case:
γενεᾱ́ (geneā́) f (genitive γενεᾶς);

• birth

• race, descent

• generation

• offspring

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B3%C ... ient_Greek

i.e., There is sufficient range here to think that by 'generation' Jesus meant more than those living at the time. Which doesn't mean you're wrong, but that it's not an open-shut case as you make it out.

Assuming the scholars and translators of the Bible were translating for today's English reading audience and would use words that spoke to this audience why should I care what some ancient writer wrote? The intent of ancient writers would have been taken care of in the translation. If we can't trust what has been translated into English what can we trust? I ask because you seem to think you, I, and everyone else can do a better job of correctly translating scripture than the scholars and translators whose job it is to correctly do just that. Sorry, but I think this is hubris gone amuck, or you're using such a stratagem as a ploy to promote your own theology.

What the Bible says in English can only be read and understood within the meanings of the English vocabulary and its definitions.


.

[Miles]

2 TIMOTHY 31-5 NWT

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Its hard to come to any other conclusion.

And you think this only applies to our current society? How do you know that societies in days long past didn't suffer the very same ills? Times of "last days" that were simply ignored. My bet is that you do not. As I see it, it's very likely that societies that fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy have already come and gone, or perhaps have never left.

.

[theophile]

And just so there's no doubt about what is meant by "generation."

generation
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source: Oxford Languages

A failed prophesy for sure, and if Jesus couldn't get it right why believe Paul could?

.

Do you think the gospel writers used the Oxford dictionary when they composed their stories? At least go to the source language if you're going to make an argument like that, and understand the full semantic range of the word.

In this case:
γενεᾱ́ (geneā́) f (genitive γενεᾶς);

• birth

• race, descent

• generation

• offspring

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B3%C ... ient_Greek

i.e., There is sufficient range here to think that by 'generation' Jesus meant more than those living at the time. Which doesn't mean you're wrong, but that it's not an open-shut case as you make it out.

Assuming the scholars and translators of the Bible were translating for today's English reading audience and would use words that spoke to this audience why should I care what some ancient writer wrote? The intent of ancient writers would have been taken care of in the translation. If we can't trust what has been translated into English what can we trust? I ask because you seem to think you, I, and everyone else can do a better job of correctly translating scripture than the scholars and translators whose job it is to correctly do just that. Sorry, but I think this is hubris gone amuck, or you're using such a stratagem as a ploy to promote your own theology.

What the Bible says in English can only be read and understood within the meanings of the English vocabulary and its definitions.


.

Have you ever heard the concept 'lost in translation'? You should care because you're making a strong conclusion here about what that writer meant. So sorry, it's not hubris on my part but laziness on yours. Unresearched points like this do not make for good arguments.

[Miles]

And just so there's no doubt about what is meant by "generation."

generation
noun: generation; plural noun: generations
1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source: Oxford Languages

A failed prophesy for sure, and if Jesus couldn't get it right why believe Paul could?

.

Do you think the gospel writers used the Oxford dictionary when they composed their stories? At least go to the source language if you're going to make an argument like that, and understand the full semantic range of the word.

In this case:
γενεᾱ́ (geneā́) f (genitive γενεᾶς);

• birth

• race, descent

• generation

• offspring

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B3%C ... ient_Greek

i.e., There is sufficient range here to think that by 'generation' Jesus meant more than those living at the time. Which doesn't mean you're wrong, but that it's not an open-shut case as you make it out.

Assuming the scholars and translators of the Bible were translating for today's English reading audience and would use words that spoke to this audience why should I care what some ancient writer wrote? The intent of ancient writers would have been taken care of in the translation. If we can't trust what has been translated into English what can we trust? I ask because you seem to think you, I, and everyone else can do a better job of correctly translating scripture than the scholars and translators whose job it is to correctly do just that. Sorry, but I think this is hubris gone amuck, or you're using such a stratagem as a ploy to promote your own theology.

What the Bible says in English can only be read and understood within the meanings of the English vocabulary and its definitions.


.

Have you ever heard the concept 'lost in translation'? You should care because you're making a strong conclusion here about what that writer meant.

The only thing I've concluded is that educated scholars and translators have a far better chance of correctly interpreting old scripture than Christian laymen or any one else not schooled in theology and ancient languages. AND, that you believe theologically impoverished Christian dilettantes are better equipped to do so.

My money is on the scholars. . . . . . . . every time.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

2 TIMOTHY 31-5 NWT

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Its hard to come to any other conclusion.

And you think this only applies to our current society? ...

No, but Pauls words do, since he was speaking of "the last days" which is a prophetical biblical reference with a major fulfillment in the period just prior to the return of Christ.

[Miles]

2 TIMOTHY 31-5 NWT

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power

Has society today fulfilled Paul’s Prophesy listed above?

Its hard to come to any other conclusion.

And you think this only applies to our current society? ...

No, but Pauls words do, since he was speaking of "the last days" which is a prophetical biblical reference with a major fulfillment in the period just prior to the return of Christ.

Are not the words you quoted from 2 TIMOTHY 31-5 those of Paul? As I assumed they were, then that's exactly what I was referring to. No "buts" about it. And if they apply equally as well to past societies then why consider our current society to be singled out? Why not our society two or three thousand years down the road that might be equally as liable?


.