The Great Image of Daniel chapter 2

[onewithhim]

Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?

[JehovahsWitness]

Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?

The image represent successive world powers ending with the present anglo-american power. The destruction of the image represents Gods kingdom putting an end to all present world governments. The complete destruction of the worlds political system.



JW

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[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You asked in your opening post:

“Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?”

I am quoting from Daniel chapter 2 with comments inserted as follows:

Daniel 2:16 Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation.

17 Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions:

18 That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.

19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

23 I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.

MY RESPONSE: In verses 19, 22 and 23 it should be observed that since the king forgot what was contained in his dream that Daniel and all others had NO knowledge of the dreams contents.

Also it is very clear that it was only by revelation from God showed unto Daniel in a night vision that he received knowledge and understanding of the dreams contents.

It is also evident that Daniel took no honor unto himself, but gave thanks and praise unto GOD for giving him wisdom, might and knowledge concerning the king’s dream.


24 Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.

25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.

26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?

27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;

28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.

30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.


My response: Daniel makes it very clear to the king that God in heaven will reveal secrets unto the king regarding what shall be in the latter days.

31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


My response: One should so observe in verse 34 that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.


36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.



My response: The king did not know what the great image represented, nor did he know what the “stone cut out without hands” represented.

If the dream to the king was a revelation from God as Daniel testified.

If the dream and interpretation thereof was shown unto Daniel by revelation as so stated by Daniel.

And inasmuch as Amos declared: Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Onewithhim then is it not also very likely that there must also be a latter day prophet who would likewise receive the necessary revelation involved in this kingdom which God will set up in the latter days?

Hopefully this will answer in part, at least, your request.

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

... is it not also very likely that there must also be a latter day prophet who would likewise receive the necessary revelation involved in this kingdom which God will set up in the latter days?

Emphasis MINE

No, not really . Jesus was the Great Prophet and he told us all we needed to know for salvation. The first century Christians prophecied in that they spoke of Gods wonderful works and John, the last Apostle to receive divine revelation, bought that era of inspired revelation to an end. From then on all that would be needed was the bible ( see 2 Tim 3:16).

All that would be necessary to understand the bible thereafter, even prophecies that applied to the last days, would be holy spirit. Men and women of faith, would be given enough holy spirit to understand scripture directly, in God's due time, without the need for another Prophet.





JW

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

You posted:

"Emphasis MINE

No, not really . Jesus was the Great Prophet and he told us all we needed to know for salvation.

My response: I find that interesting so say the least. If Jesus told us all we need to know for salvation, then why was there any need for John John to receive additional revelations?

How come it took over 4000 years for people even know what was required for salvation, according to your answers?

The first century Christians prophecied in that they spoke of Gods wonderful works and John, the last Apostle to receive divine revelation, bought that era of inspired revelation to an end. From then on all that would be needed was the bible ( see 2 Tim 3:16).

All that would be necessary to understand the bible thereafter, even prophecies that applied to the last days, would be holy spirit. Men and women of faith, would be given enough holy spirit to understand scripture directly, in God's due time, without the need for another Prophet.

My further responses:

Acts 3:
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:


21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Why would there be any need for “the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;” if there was not missing something very important?

Why would God the Father need to “send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Unless somethings in the gospel were lost or missing?

The scripture clearly states: “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Obviously there would be no need to restore all things which God hath spoken by holy prophets since the world began unless those things were lost through neglect or apostasy.

Also if the kingdom of God was finally placed on earth in 1914 as you claim, then who is administering this kingdom?

What has he said in directing it’s affairs?

You claim there are 144,00 co-administrators to assist. Who are they and how are they chosen and when were they chosen, and by whom?


Isaiah also prophesied:

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

When this kingdom you assert was established in 1914 was done, where is the location or headquarters?

By what means was it established ?

Isaiah speaks of the Lord’s house being established. Was this also done?

Where is it located?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

When this kingdom of God was established as you claim, can you then tell us when this new covenant was made with “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah

Ezekiel 37: 26 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Has this new covenant been established and when?

Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Obviously some gospel things must be missing in the last days or there would be no need, as Jesus taught for Elias to restore all things.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Have all things in Christ been gathered together yet as stated in Ephesians? If so when?

Now, JW, you declared that there is no longer any need for prophets.

You said ”John, the last Apostle to receive divine revelation, bought that era of inspired revelation to an end. From then on all that would be needed was the bible”

That is very contradictory to what John gave in:

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

These two great latter day prophets are certainly filled with the spirit of revelation or prophesy and mighty power from God.

These prophets like other prophets are also chosen by revelation.

This account in Revelation clearly refutes your claim of no need for prophets.

Kind regards,
RW

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

The Bible pursues the progressions of 2 rulers and 2 cities from their origin to beyond the end of this age. One ruler sets up a city, with the intent that it cannot be conquered by God. He calls it Babylon. It is begun by Nimrod but carried thru time as a series of world ruling empires that rise and fall. It is led by men who seek to impose government outside of the rule of God. The other ruler, Abraham seeks out a city whose builder and maker is God. No one called of God, can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he is of the lineage of Abraham, either by birth or by being grafted into his family tree.

The Great Image of Nebuchadnezzar, pictures the great cities and rulers of this world, led by mankind, their rise and their fall, over the course of millennia, through the annuls of time, into this end time, with one last rise of Babylon. The stone cut out without hands, is the Rock of Israel and that Rock was Christ. He allotted mankind 6000 years of self rule. At the end of that time, the Earth will take its Sabbath rest from the rule of men, who murder, lie, cheat, connive and who do not look to God, to be replaced with a rule of God and Christ and those saints called to rule with Him.

It will be a government no longer of men who die, who kill, who destroy and seek what they can get, but a government of God based on love and law and not on bribes and favors. A government of peace and plenty, where your work achieves what you intend to accomplish and your teachers will not be hidden from your eyes when you veer off the path, but a voice will say in your ear, "this is the way you should go, go that way." And at the end of that Sabbath Rest, God will judge all mankind that ever lived, and give them the chance to know the Lord, from the small to the great, everyone will know. And their judgment will be over a lifetime, where they can learn to live by every word of God.

Soj

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

The Bible pursues the progressions of 2 rulers and 2 cities from their origin to beyond the end of this age. One ruler sets up a city, with the intent that it cannot be conquered by God. He calls it Babylon. It is begun by Nimrod but carried thru time as a series of world ruling empires that rise and fall. It is led by men who seek to impose government outside of the rule of God. The other ruler, Abraham seeks out a city whose builder and maker is God. No one called of God, can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he is of the lineage of Abraham, either by birth or by being grafted into his family tree.

The Great Image of Nebuchadnezzar, pictures the great cities and rulers of this world, led by mankind, their rise and their fall, over the course of millennia, through the annuls of time, into this end time, with one last rise of Babylon. The stone cut out without hands, is the Rock of Israel and that Rock was Christ. He allotted mankind 6000 years of self rule. At the end of that time, the Earth will take its Sabbath rest from the rule of men, who murder, lie, cheat, connive and who do not look to God, to be replaced with a rule of God and Christ and those saints called to rule with Him.

It will be a government no longer of men who die, who kill, who destroy and seek what they can get, but a government of God based on love and law and not on bribes and favors. A government of peace and plenty, where your work achieves what you intend to accomplish and your teachers will not be hidden from your eyes when you veer off the path, but a voice will say in your ear, "this is the way you should go, go that way." And at the end of that Sabbath Rest, God will judge all mankind that ever lived, and give them the chance to know the Lord, from the small to the great, everyone will know. And their judgment will be over a lifetime, where they can learn to live by every word of God.

Soj

Many stories that together make an interesting tale that does ring a few bells.

But an essential ingredient is missing.

That is, what God says about all this, and what He leaves unsaid.

If you can, Soj, please make known to us the missing ingredient, from the written Word of God.

[JehovahsWitness]

Dear JW,

You posted:

"Emphasis MINE

No, not really . Jesus was the Great Prophet and he told us all we needed to know for salvation.

My response:....If Jesus told us all we need to know for salvation, then why was there any need for John John to receive additional revelations?

The Revelation was still Jesus telling us all we needed to know.

REVELATION 1:1 NWT

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John

The Revelation is highly SYMBOLIC. The two witnesses do NOT symbolize two literal individual latter day prophets but all spirit anointed Christians in the early 20th century.

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

[JehovahsWitness]

Obviously there would be no need to restore all things which God hath spoken by holy prophets since the world began unless those things were lost through neglect or apostasy.

God word endures forever and nothing in the written word of God has been lost or corrupted. That said the Apostles fortold a period of apostacy that would corrupt the organized Christian congregation and leave honest hearted people in a period of great darkness. These "dark ages" lasted for nearly two thousand years, not because the bible was lost but that access to it was limited and the religious elite were totally corrupt.

Thus a restoration was indeed in order but it would be in God's due time, by means of his holy spirit with no need of a new Prophet or further inspired scripture.



JW





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[JehovahsWitness]

When this kingdom you assert was established in 1914 was done, where is the location or headquarters?

I think onewithim wants to discuss Daniel's end time prophecy. You are asking elementary level questions about the kingdom that I have already anwered many times over. Indeed you asked this same question a few days ago in a more appropriate thread
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Please see my earlier posts that anwers all your questions HERE
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You are also free to start your own thread or invite me or any of the other Jehovahs Witnesses to explain our beliefs by posting in the subforum QUESTION FOR S GROUP
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I don't want to derail the thread.

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