Hailstones in Revelation

[2timothy316]

"Then great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent, fell from heaven on the people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague was unusually great." (Rev. 16:21)

What is this talking about? Is it literal? Is it symbolic? Even though people know the hailstones are falling from Heaven, why are they blaspheming God?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by 2timothy316]

Timothy what are you asking, how many people are going to have to Google because they've never even heard of this verse?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by 2timothy316]

Timothy what are you asking, how many people are going to have to Google because they've never even heard of this verse?

I've recently learned that David Koresh had the Bible in its entirety committed to memory. Perhaps you have done the same. Does it weaken the argument others may present if they, like many mere mortals, have to refer to some documentation to verify the contents of the Bible?

Should we assume that Koresh's amazing capacity for memorization was an indication that he spoke with absolute authority when he taught the Bible?

Should we assume that one's familiarization with Rev. 16:21 is evidence that their interpretation is authoritative?


Tcg

[Checkpoint]

"Then great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent, fell from heaven on the people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague was unusually great." (Rev. 16:21)

What is this talking about? Is it literal? Is it symbolic? Even though people know the hailstones are falling from Heaven, why are they blaspheming God?

The whole chapter is talking about the wrath of God.

No, I don't think it is literal; it is symbolic, yet very meaningful.

It is painting a vivid word picture of "the wrath of God" being poured out on those who have gone their own way and been rejected as Satanic worshipers who will weep and gnash their teeth in rage, in grief, and in blasphemy.

See verses 1 and 20; also 18:8,24; 14:18-20; and John 3:36.

[Yahwehismywitness]

No, I don't think it is literal; it is symbolic, yet very meaningful.

Hail is literal in fact freezing rain 8 inches in diameter recorded so you think they could not get larger, a one foot cube not a far reach in extreme weather conditions do not under estimate.

[2timothy316]

The whole chapter is talking about the wrath of God.

No, I don't think it is literal; it is symbolic, yet very meaningful.

It is painting a vivid word picture of "the wrath of God" being poured out on those who have gone their own way and been rejected as Satanic worshipers who will weep and gnash their teeth in rage, in grief, and in blasphemy.

See verses 1 and 20; also 18:8,24; 14:18-20; and John 3:36.

What would it feel like to be hit by one of these symbolic hailstones so as to make a person rage in blasphemy? How does a hailstone symbolize the wrath of God?

[PinSeeker]

Throughout history, four basic approaches have been suggested: the "futurist", "historicist", "preterist", and "idealist" approaches.

• * Futurist -- the most popular; those taking this approach understand everything from 4:1 forward to be a prophecy of events that are yet to occur.
  
  * Historicist -- understands Revelation to be a prophecy of church history from the first advent to the second coming of Christ.
  
  * Preterist -- most (not all) of the prophecies in the book were fulfilled not long after John wrote the book.
  
  * Idealist -- understands John to have been using symbols to express timeless principles concerning the ongoing conflict between good and evil.

A combination of the preterist and idealist approaches makes the most sense of the book.

• * John himself says the prophecies of the book will be fulfilled soon, not thousands of years later. But he is also saying that the prophecies will be fulfilled multiple times over throughout history up to Jesus's return.
  
  * Furthermore, he repeatedly identifies his book as a prophecy (1:3; 19:10; 22:7, 10, 18, 19). This means the way we approach earlier prophetic books should instruct the way we approach this one. Many of the Old Testament prophetic books deal with impending judgment of Israel while also pointing forward to ultimate restoration. Once we grasp this fact, the meaning of the book of Revelation becomes clearer.
  
  * The whole of Revelation is meant to stir our longing and prayers for the full realization of God’s purposes, which is to take place at the Second Coming. Revelation fittingly ends on this note ("Come quickly, Lord Jesus" (22:20).

In light of all this, the hail in Revelation 16:21 (and also Revelation 8:7 and 11:19) should be seen in the same light as the hail of Exodus 9:18-25 -- but not in the same literal way. In Revelation 8 and 11 as well as 16, the hail is not woodenly literal but rather symbolic of God's final judgment.

In short, it would help us all to read Revelation as a sort of picture-book fantasy rather than a history textbook. It is a revelation, after all, so the title itself identifies its genre. It is apocalyptic, of course, and therefore a disclosure of unseen realities.

• * The whole of Revelation is an ultra-vivid vision given to John in the form of a dream. And it's actually a series of dreams, each one focusing on the whole of human history leading up to the return of Christ.
  
  * Progressively, each one of these "cycles" focuses more than the previous one on His actual return.
  
  * The final message of every one of the cycles -- also called histories -- is that... Christ wins, and those who are His triumph in and with Him. In this way, blessed are all -- not just the ones who are still alive at the time of His return, whenever that may be -- who read aloud John's Revelation and hear and keep what is written in it, for the time is near (Revelation 1:3).

Grace and peace to all.

[marco]

"Then great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent, fell from heaven on the people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague was unusually great." (Rev. 16:21)

What is this talking about? Is it literal? Is it symbolic? Even though people know the hailstones are falling from Heaven, why are they blaspheming God?

It is funny. We have explored what is above us and there is no physical heaven from which hailstones might fall. It was an ancient idea, amended by science. I wouldn't worry about it being literal since we have further threats in:

.

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.


This tells us the writer's imagination extends to his regional geography. The answer would have been to sedate him. I pinch myself to remind me I am in the 21st century.

[marco]

Throughout history, four basic approaches have been suggested: the "futurist", "historicist", "preterist", and "idealist" approaches.

I like the last two descriptions. It is generous not to condemn Revelation as rubbish and try to see some sense in it. When a child shows a drawing of coloured squiggles one might also praise the artistry. There have been many imaginative writings through history and we can extract meaning from them, such as the Odyssey or the Aeneid or the modern Harry Potter. I believe the repulsive Martin Luther considered Revelation nonsense. The church did herself no favours by including Rev in her book of dogmatic essays.

[PinSeeker]

I like the last two descriptions.

Sure. Everybody should. It's the correct way to evaluate it.

It is generous not to condemn Revelation as rubbish...

I wouldn't use the term 'generous'...

...and try to see some sense in it.

Some will fail to, for one reason or another, for sure. And you're right, many will not even try.

When a child shows a drawing of coloured squiggles one might also praise the artistry.

That you use the ways of children is very interesting. Because actually, the more one reads Revelation in the same manner as a child would a storybook -- or draws a picture with "coloured squiggles" to tell a story -- the more true understanding can be had of the great truths and true blessings that God reveals and gives us (through John) in that great work of literature.

There have been many imaginative writings through history and we can extract meaning from them, such as the Odyssey or the Aeneid or the modern Harry Potter.

Yes, but none, other than Scripture itself was or is divinely inspired -- breathed by -- God Himself.

I believe the repulsive Martin Luther considered Revelation nonsense.

Martin Luther said and did some great things for the glory of God, but he did indeed have his failings.

The church did herself no favours by including Rev in her book of dogmatic essays.

The "church" deserves no real positive or negative credit. God said what He meant and meant what He said, and Revelation is certainly just as covered in that statement as any other book of the Bible. To think otherwise is to be in denial, or just to think what unthinking people are thinking.

Grace and peace to you, marco.