"Jesus was a Jew"

[Thomas123]

"Jesus was a Jew"

Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

Yahweh

The Jesus scriptures rest under the shade of this judaic overlord. Like Isaiah before him, Jesus's reported supplications are made to this focal entity within Judaism. Jesus must therefore be considered as Jewish, not simply by birthright but more fundamentally in both intellectual and outlook conditioning.

"Jesus was a Jew." Please Debate

[Thomas123]

This debate may have been entered into an incorrect category,and for that, I apologise

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 1 by Thomas Mc Donald]

Jesus' mother was a Jewess. ergo Jesus was a Jew. That's just the way it works in Judaism. Even those whose philosophies and beliefs are at odds with current or traditional Jewish theology are still Jews, provided they have a Jewish mother.

The only non-Jewish attribute I can find of Jesus was that He decided to dispense with racism, and to take His message, not only to Jews, but also to gentiles* (goyim).

Best wishes, 2RM.

*Matthew 15:21-28 KJV.

[Yahwehismywitness]

Bethlehem Location of Bethlehem within Palestine

The church Jesus founded in Palestine

Qumran within Palestine territories

Palestine in the Time of Jesus. Jesus came from the town of Nazareth in Galilee. This northern territory of Palestine was also his most important area of activity. Apart from the larger towns of Sepphoris and Tiberias Galilee was a country area, and agriculture was the main occupation.

Judaea, also spelled Judea, or Judah, Hebrew Yehudaḥ, the southernmost of the three traditional divisions of ancient Palestine; the other two were Galilee in the north and Samaria in the centre. No clearly marked boundary divided Judaea from Samaria, but the town of Beersheba was traditionally the southernmost limit.

n Matthew 1:1–6 and Luke 3:31–34 of the New Testament, Jesus is described as a member of the tribe of Judah by lineage. Revelation 5:5 also mentions an apocalyptic vision of the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

It is generally agreed by historians that Jesus and his disciples primarily spoke Aramaic, the common language of Judea in the first century AD, most likely a Galilean dialect distinguishable from that of Jerusalem.

Aramaic spread through centuries of conquest, spurred by the invasions of the Assyrian and later Persian empires.

Isho in order to preserve the Aramaic name of Jesus.

Yeshua is used in Israelite Hebrew historical texts

“Judean Galilee�, or “Galilean Judeans�, or of “Judean ethnic identity� being evident in Galilee and so forth. Being of the same ethnic stock as those living in Judea, Galileans were people who lived out their Judean ethnic identity, of which “religion� was a part, alongside others,10 but not in itself adequate to describe the whole. To reiterate: Galileans were not “Jews� who practiced a “religion� called “Judaism�. When Jesus, the Galilean, was crucified as the “king of the Judeans� ( ; Mt 27:37; Mk 15:26; Lk 23:38; Jn 19:19), it was a profound and highly offensive statement against Judean ethnic identity. It devalued and belittled what most of the people held dear.

Were the Galileans “religious Jews� or “ethnic Judeans?
http://www.scielo.org.za/pdf/hts/v64n3/v64n3a08.pdf

[Red Wolf]

John 8:48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?� 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.

Obviously, the Jews thought Jesus was a Samaritan.

[Elijah John]

This debate may have been entered into an incorrect category,and for that, I apologise

No, you're topic is fine for this forum.

And yes, Jesus was a Jew. He observed Jewish rites of passage and pilgrimages etc. And taught YHVH-worship, the God of the Jews. Now whether in addition to this Jesus was God incarnate the second person of the Trinity is another matter, highly debatable, and not as clear as his human Jewishness.

[Thomas123]

I think it interesting to consider the real content of the New Testament "Jesus" writings, by firstly declaring them to be completely rooted within the religion of the Jews. Often used quotes on this point might be,
Matthew 5:27
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

I become puzzled by a 'twisting of things', that allows a Jewish metaphorical presentation of Yahweh as a fatherly king become a Christian declaration of there being a direct 'Father/Son' connection.

Where in the well of literature that underpins Judaism is there even a slight notion that he, Yahweh, would have a Son to send to his people.

There are many parables used in the New Testament which appear to act as buttresses for this notion of a Jesus declaring that he is the Son of God. The most obvious of these is when the king sends his son as an envoy ,only to have him murdered.

This appears to me as a very crude construct in that this parable's message is little more than a veiled example of narrative reinforcement.

I do like the conclusion of the parable however,Matthew 21:33-46, where this is attributed to Jesus.

42 ‘The stone that the builders rejected
    has now become the cornerstone.
This is the Lord’s doing,
    and it is wonderful to see.'

44 'Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.

Here we see the use of Judaic quotation within a context where surely this Jesus is referring to himself as a teacher of the Law like the many others, who had been mistreated and ridiculed before him.

I welcome any considerations that people have regarding this very general subject.

[brianbbs67]

I think it interesting to consider the real content of the New Testament "Jesus" writings, by firstly declaring them to be completely rooted within the religion of the Jews. Often used quotes on this point might be,
Matthew 5:27
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

I become puzzled by a 'twisting of things', that allows a Jewish metaphorical presentation of Yahweh as a fatherly king become a Christian declaration of there being a direct 'Father/Son' connection.

Where in the well of literature that underpins Judaism is there even a slight notion that he, Yahweh, would have a Son to send to his people.

There are many parables used in the New Testament which appear to act as buttresses for this notion of a Jesus declaring that he is the Son of God. The most obvious of these is when the king sends his son as an envoy ,only to have him murdered.

This appears to me as a very crude construct in that this parable's message is little more than a veiled example of narrative reinforcement.

I do like the conclusion of the parable however,Matthew 21:33-46, where this is attributed to Jesus.

42 ‘The stone that the builders rejected
    has now become the cornerstone.
This is the Lord’s doing,
    and it is wonderful to see.'

44 'Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.

Here we see the use of Judaic quotation within a context where surely this Jesus is referring to himself as a teacher of the Law like the many others, who had been mistreated and ridiculed before him.

I welcome any considerations that people have regarding this very general subject.

I agree Jesus' ministry was purely Hebrew. It was a Hebrew revival. Please expound on what you have said abouth him.

[FWI]

Obviously, the Jews thought Jesus was a Samaritan.

Not the way you are suggesting. The claim by the Pharisees was meant to be an insult and had nothing to with the Christ's real heritage! Because, Jesus (by Israelite law) was the son of Joseph and Mary, who were both from the tribe of Judah and King David. Where, the Samaritans were of mixed Jewish and pagan ancestry, therefore they were considered half breeds and despised. However, Jesus ministered to the people of Samaria preaching the good news to them. So, it seems clear that the Christ had a different attitude (about the Samaritans) and Gentiles in general, than the Jews. Hence, the reason for the insult.

[Thomas123]

Psalm 47
'1 Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy. 
2 For the LORD Most High is awesome, the great King over all the earth. '

The Jesus movement of the New Testament was advancing the Jewish/Yahweh franchise into areas of society which had previously been marked as inappropriate. The Jesus writings display a very devout and motivated movement who courageously attempt to share the 'Good News', that comes from a life of love living under a God of Love, such as Yahweh.

If we consider here a connect between Feudalism and Revolutionary Democracy in France, we can see that there is an evolvement of freedom concepts from one to the other.

The Jesus movement is pushing the possibility of an intimate relationship with Yahweh towards the poor, the uneducated , the disenfranchised and the Gentile.

For many reasons within the people at that time this revolutionary proposal falls on fertile ground. If only for the placebo effect of this new expanded Judaism, the Jesus movement grows beyond imagination.

We are constantly presented with caricatures of the Judaic custodians of the Law which resemble a type of political propaganda that we are all very familiar with today. It is likely that the Temple authorities were sincere in their opposition to the radical reinterpretation that was 'the Jesus agenda.' It was a fool's errand that just would not go away.

The 'Yahweh for All' idea, breaks all boundaries and it is a Jewish movement that attempts to give the benefits of their faith to the previously excluded.

Yahweh is the source of the people's new freedom. There is equality of participation within Yahweh that is non negotiable. It is a widow's treasure.

Matthew 21:43
'Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof'