"Protecting abortion access is a Catholic Value"

[Elijah John]

I just saw a protesters sign reading:

Protecting abortion access is a Catholic value".

Really? How so?

Is that the official policy of the RCC now? Prove it.

Sounds to me this is more of a case of false witness or scandal. Wishful thinking at best.

Should the holder of this sign be excommunicated? Or are they automatically excommunicated?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I have heard that the RCC holds companies that make condoms, and other contraceptives, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that they also have interests in abortions. They speak one way and do another. What was it that Jesus said about the Pharisees?--Do what they say, but not as they do! (Matthew 23:3)

And I doubt if they would excommunicate that sign-holder. It would bring too much attention onto their dark deeds. And excommunication is never automatic. Hitler was never excommunicated, for example. Neither were Goebbels, Goering, Mengele, or any of the other Catholic Nazis.


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[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I have heard that the RCC holds companies that make condoms, and other contraceptives, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that they also have interests in abortions.

You've heard some interesting things. If course, without verifiable evidence to support these things you've heard, they amount to nothing more than rumor.

In any case, your suggestion that they may have interests in abortion is nothing but baseless conjecture.


Tcg

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 3 by Tcg]

I'll look up again what I found in a well-documented publication written by Gerald Posner. I'll post it later.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I have heard that the RCC holds companies that make condoms, and other contraceptives, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that they also have interests in abortions.

Are you sure your orgainzation's anti-Catholic bias is not coloring your statement here? Can't you even give the RCC a little bit of credit for a position your organization shares with them, namely the pro-life position?

Without verifiable examples, I request that you retract your unfounded accusation.

[tam]

...

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Part of the problem here is determining who or what should be considered Catholic. If it refers to the edicts passed down by the Vatican, than at the present time, it wouldn't be considered a Catholic value.

If, however, it refers to those who identify as Catholics, then it is a different story. Researching briefly the opinions of this group, perhaps as many as half of all Catholics consider abortion a valid choice at least in some cases. Of course many of the surveys I have access to are U.S. centric, but some research pointed to similar levels elsewhere.

So what makes a value a Catholic one? I'd say one that is held by those who consider themselves Catholic. In this, we have a clear division. This shouldn't come as a surprise given the size of the Catholic church.

As far as excommunication, that seems a bit extreme. If the Vatican were to take this action, they'd lose a great many members. It wouldn't be surprising if those excommunicated created their own branch of Catholicism.


Tcg

[brianbbs67]

I think they are playing with word meanings, EJ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 6 by Tcg]

Maybe the protester is referring to her own, heretical breakaway sect and not the RCC. Nancy Pelosi considers herself a good RC, but both she and the protester misrepresent the doctrine of the Church. NP says that her Catholic faith teaches her to support the rights of women, she was speaking in regard to abortion.

Both Pelosi and the protester publicly misrepresent the position of the RCC. This is the sin of "scandal", and it is my understanding that scandal triggers automatic excommunication.

Yes, if the RCC enforces this, they may loose some members. But I doubt very many. I wonder if we will get the chance to see? Stay tuned.

One RC cleric already refused communion to Joe Biden for his pro-choice positions.

And whether or not one agrees on the issue of abortion, I think we all agree that any "club" has a right to make it's own rules, including the RCC. Pro-choice politicians and protesters who call themselves Catholic are not playing by the rules.

[Elijah John]

I think they are playing with word meanings, EJ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)

Yes, "Catholic" technically means "universal" as in the universal Christian church. But the common understanding is that it refers to the Roman Catholic Church.

Do you think the protester was referring to the esoteric technical term? Or to the more common understanding referring to the RCC. What is more likely?