JehovahsWitness wrote:
DID GOD HAVE JESUS MURDERED?
♦ANSWER
No he did not . Jesus was most certainly unlawfully killed (murdered) but it would not be an accurate description of the bible narrative to say
God had him murdered. In English using the verb "
to have" as a causative (to have your car washed, to have someone cut your hair, to have someone murdered...) implies that someone initiated/commissioned/authorized said action. While God commissioned Jesus to go on a mission to save mankind (a mission that would involve the his offering his life as a sacrifice), He (God) never initiated or commissioned that one's murder.
To illustrate: Imagine for a moment if you would, a country at war, things are not going well. A King asks his most valient General if he is willing to personally take on a mission from which it is sure he will not return but will turn the tide of the war and save countless millions of men women and children. As the General leaves on this life saving mission, if a writer or journalist was to report the event, do you think the headlines will read: "Our King has our finest General MURDERED!"
To conclude that God "had" Jesus murdered is a gross misrepresentation of the reported facts. Jesus was murdered by his enemies who manipulated the Roman authorities into committing an injustice. God neither initiated, nor is he spoken of as approving of this manipulation or any of the resulting evil acts. He
allowed them because Christ enduring such torture would ultimately prove beneficial for mankind, which was the reason he sent his son on the misson in the first place.
CONCLUSION God did not have his son murdered, he sent him on a misson aware that he would be be murdered by others. The difference is not mere semantics as it is the difference between the commission a life saving act of valiancy and initiating a crime.
JW
But there's a huge problem with the apology you have accepted that you are apparently ignoring entirely.
Yes, what you have expressed above is what is taught by religious theists. But it makes no sense at all. And here's why:
It's in the King analogy:
To illustrate: Imagine for a moment if you would, a country at war, things are not going well. A King asks his most valient General if he is willing to personally take on a mission from which it is sure he will not return but will turn the tide of the war and save countless millions of men women and children. As the General leaves on this life saving mission, if a writer or journalist was to report the event, do you think the headlines will read: "Our King has our finest General MURDERED!"
It's absurd to make an analogy between a human King who is at war with other humans, and a supposedly omnipotent creator of everything.
A human King has no other options but to fight against his enemies the only way he can. In fact, the scenario described of the King above would only be done by a King who feels that he is in an extremely desperate situation. After all, why send a soldier on a suicide mission if you could solve the problem other ways, like say through diplomacy and intelligence solutions?
So in order for you to buy into this apology you have no choice but to accept that God is just as helpless and desperate as the King in this analogy. God would need to be in a war with an enemy who is so powerful that the enemy is forcing God to have have to make a desperate sacrifice in order to try to win the war.
So you have actually embraced an apology that insults your God and reduces him to being as desperate and incapable as a mere mortal human King.
For this analogy to hold you have no choice but to accept that your God is in a desperate situation with no other alternatives left to chose from.
Why accept such an obviously flawed apology? Do you see your God as being no more powerful or intelligent than a mere human King?
So this apology falls flat and does not resolve the problem. You may buy into this apology, but there's no way I would buy into it. So your religion offers me nothing but utterly absurd apologies that require that your God is no better off than a mere mortal King.
CONCLUSION God did not have his son murdered, he sent him on a misson aware that he would be be murdered by others. The difference is not mere semantics as it is the difference between the commission a life saving act of valiancy and initiating a crime.
But this doesn't help. You still have a God who is forced to jump through desperate hoops that no omnipotent entity should ever need to jump through.
In short, the apology you've just regurgitated is an apology that demands that your God is just as helpless and inept as a mortal human King.
So this is why I reject this apology as being utterly absurd. I'm certainly not going to accept this apology as though it has any merit. It's a terrible apology that necessarily needs to reduce God to being as helpless and inept as a mere mortal human King.
Not only would this then be an extreme act of desperation on the part of your God, but according to Jesus it would even be an extremely futile act of desperation. According to Jesus only few will be saved and make it into the Kingdom of Heaven anyway. So it would not only be an act of extreme desperation of a God who has to jump through human-made hoops, but it would even be an act of desperation that only saves a few souls.
This would be an extremely desperate God to be sure. If you want to make an analogy with a mortal human King, the King would need to be loosing the war, and sending his general out as a last resort in the hope of trying to salvage something other than total defeat. It certainly wouldn't even win the war.
So you are accepting extremely flawed apologies and just regurgitating them here because this is what you have been taught to accept.
But there's no reason for anyone else to accept such nonsense. You should be able to see the failure of this apology yourself. Why are you so quick to embrace an analogy that requires that your God is just as helpless and impotent as a King who is desperately losing a war?
How in the world does that make any sense?
This apology doesn't fly. It requires that your God is just as desperate and helpless as a mere mortal King who's already losing a war. That's a seriously sick apology for a God who can't do any better than this.
