:|| Branches of Christians ||:

[Yusef]

Hi,
As i introduced The Two branches of Islam in a very short post here:
ref:The Dragon & 2 beasts = Sufyani & Abubakr and Umar

I ask you Christians to introduce yourselves[branches and the differences]
From your own tong is better than what have written in the internet.. as I did.

Thanks.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 1 by Yusef]

There are not different branches of Catholicism. Christ's Church is One. We are One, Holy, Apostolic, and Universal Church.

[Yusef]

[Replying to RightReason]

dear,
i didn't talk about branches of Catholicism!
rather i talk about branches of Christianity/Paulity and differences

because i researched randomly and found within any branch of Judaism/Christianity/Islam some parts of the Doctrine of Shi'a-Islam
that i claim this seems will be the last and most complete true beliefs and
NOBODY such as you hasn't ever could bring anything against that!!

THEREFORE i put this beliefs as the CRITERION and compare any other Religions/Beliefs with that
UNLESS one such as you can bring things that i can change the criterion to your own beliefs and compare this Shi'a-Islam with that

Exp:
i last night read the jw.org and understood that they believe in Bada' as the Shi'a Doctrine does!
ref:*** Can one/men Change Predictions!!? ***

or you Catholics that believe Barzakh/Purgatory like to us!!
ref:Barzakh / Purgatory

or Jews/Orthodox who in the number 12 should admit and await for coming Milikh HaMashih exact the number 12 like us!!!
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 753#954753


see,
we from any belief think/imagine that all others have read/studied complete our own beliefs and plenty know everything about...
but as i introduced to you in the same this forum things about our own beliefs means Doctrine of Shi'a, be sure maybe even 90% of our own people of Shi'a don't aware them take a while you members/guests of this forum have known!!

did you get what i mean!?

[RightReason]

[Replying to Yusef]

dear,
i didn't talk about branches of Catholicism!
rather i talk about branches of Christianity/Paulity and differences

Uuummm . . . isn’t this the Catholicism thread? Hence the reason for my response.

because i researched randomly and found within any branch of Judaism/Christianity/Islam some parts of the Doctrine of Shi'a-Islam
that i claim this seems will be the last and most complete true beliefs and
NOBODY such as you hasn't ever could bring anything against that!!

Is your claim that within any branch of Christianity there exists parts of the doctrine of Shi’a-Islam?


For example, you give the example that Catholics believe in Purgatory and apparently your religion believes in something similar, so what are you saying that means to you? I guess I am just unclear what it is you think something like that means. Atheists often point to similarities between mythology and religious beliefs like that of Christianity and Islam, but just because there may have been sacrifices offered in pagan worship and Judaism does not mean Judaism stole their beliefs from the pagans. That does not logically follow.


Also, you are aware that the Koran was written 600 years after Jesus, right? Do you know the history of the Koran vs. the Bible? On no occasion has the Bible been officially altered throughout Christendom, but the Koran has been modified and records remain of old variants that testify to former versions.

did you get what i mean!?

I’m not sure. Can you please explain a little further. Thank you.

[Yusef]

[Replying to Yusef]

dear,
i didn't talk about branches of Catholicism!
rather i talk about branches of Christianity/Paulity and differences

Uuummm . . . isn’t this the Catholicism thread? Hence the reason for my response.

Nope,
I mean as myself explained our beliefs..
See,
There is a hard wrong within we all religious' that have mixed our beliefs with the policy that show others that we each one of religions are united together JUST BECAUSE OF foreign religions abus
TAKE A WHILE if one such as you or that member 'JehovahsWitness' show their own beliefs to others and show their own enmity/difference with other branches,
THEREFORE
others come/research toward you THE BETTER!
but while we Jews/Muslims see you Christians/Paulians we look at you all a thing! Just Paulians!!
Exactly such as we Muslims that you foreign religions look at us/your viewpoints is islam of Abubakr/Umar/Uthman/Ummayyid/Abbassied etc as terrorism ISIS etc...
While one such as me brought a series of facts about ultra important differences between Shi'a and Sunnies that you understood difference between what you were thought and what is real!!
Even they Sunnies themselves so many think and recognize facts and maybe convert...
Source:
Shi'a Hadith
The first Imam of Shi'a, Ali(pbuh) said: "...and in the end time Shi'a people divide several parts that each one of them curse and spit on face and excommunicate each other... then the narrator cried and told: what bad it will be the Imam(pbuh) replied: Nope! Rather it's the same time that the Saviour will reappear! "

Well, it shows it's the better if we appear our own inside differences to others that the separation between True and False be cleared earlier!

because i researched randomly and found within any branch of Judaism/Christianity/Islam some parts of the Doctrine of Shi'a-Islam
that i claim this seems will be the last and most complete true beliefs and
NOBODY such as you hasn't ever could bring anything against that!!

Is your claim that within any branch of Christianity there exists parts of the doctrine of Shi’a-Islam?


For example, you give the example that Catholics believe in Purgatory and apparently your religion believes in something similar, so what are you saying that means to you? I guess I am just unclear what it is you think something like that means. Atheists often point to similarities between mythology and religious beliefs like that of Christianity and Islam, but just because there may have been sacrifices offered in pagan worship and Judaism does not mean Judaism stole their beliefs from the pagans. That does not logically follow.

Bravo hahaha..
You reminded me arguments of those non-Shi'a people that claim branch of Shi'a has been created under doctrines of Judaism/Christianity how!!?
Because somewhere are similar
It's like when we say some religions are similar in

• walking/eyes/bearing/eating...

haha

Nope dear,
I mean Why you both JehovahsWitnesses and Catholics that have these right/true beliefs such as those i mentioned, Why don't you do introduce your true/logical beliefs to others that one hear/read/research and find and think about your beliefs!?

Also, you are aware that the Koran was written 600 years after Jesus, right? Do you know the history of the Koran vs. the Bible? On no occasion has the Bible been officially altered throughout Christendom, but the Koran has been modified and records remain of old variants that testify to former versions.

Yeah,
And you, How do you know that the Gospel Barnabas is false!?
Are you sure about your own(what is!?) gospel about modification!??
Have you yourself ever tested that on the Crossword puzzle and find it's degree of correctness!?

[RightReason]

[Replying to Yusef]

I believe you might be saying we all should share what makes our religion different/unique because that will expose truth and hopefully converts. If that is what you are saying I agree to an extent and I personally do that a lot. I know it is very popular for some, I suppose in the name of ecumenism, to emphasize the things we all have in common. I am not a big fan of this approach because it leads to indifferentism, which is the belief that one faith is just as good as another. The idea that it doesn’t matter what religion/church you belong to as long as you believe in God. Of course such an approach denies truth. If different religions teach different things it would be illogical to think they are all true/right/good.


Therefore, I agree it is important to share individual/unique details about our religion; however what I think is even more important is to ask the even bigger question. I wouldn’t just ask, “What do Catholics believe?� “What do the Sunni believe?� Instead, I would ask, “Where did the Jehovah Witnesses come from?� “What is Islam’s history? “When did the Methodists come to be?� Who founded the Mormons?� In other words, we need to go back to the beginning. We need to know history. If we learn the history of any religion, we could rule out over 90% of them as being false religions. For example, there are over 1000 different Christian denominations/branches. Believe it or not, there are Christian faiths that were founded as recent as the 1940s. And there are many branches that did not appear until the 1700’s or 1800’s.


So now I ask you could these faiths be true/right? Especially when they proceed to use the Bible given to them by my Church, but go on to say it means something different than we say it does? In doing so they are saying they accept our authority in compiling the Bible, but then claim to not accept our interpretation of the Bible. If they don’t trust us with that, why do they trust we got the Bible right? Which they now use as their authority? MAKES NO SENSE. So, if these branches didn't exist until the 18th 19th or even 20th century and teach something different than the Church established by Jesus Christ I think it's safe to say they can't be Christ Church! Christ promised to remain with His Church – not abandon her, lie dormant for a thousand years and then re-emerge saying surprise!, here I am with new teachings and moral truths. For example the Jehovah Witness religion was founded in 1870 by a guy who began teaching the world would end in 1878. He and 4 other guys, who had no Biblical or theological training, sat in a room and produced a new translation and interpretation of Sacred Scripture, claiming to be the owners of truth.


Only the Catholic Church can trace its origin back to Jesus Christ himself, with Peter being the first Pope and there being an unbroken line of succession ever since. So that narrows down things on the Christian side of the aisle. Now we can take a look at world religions other than Christianity like Islam and Judaism and see how they compare to Christianity. God established a covenant with Abraham. The Old Testament prophets say the coming of Christ is the fulfillment of this original Covenant with God; it says a New Covenant shall be created. Christian Roots are in Judaism. The Jews deny Christ’s coming but plenty of testimony, eyewitness accounts, and historical evidence prove Christ as our savior.


Now Islam came even after both Judaism and Christianity and a huge red flag for me about Islam is her founder Muhammad. He was nothing like Jesus, who all testimony shows to have been sinless and perfect. Jesus is described as loving, forgiving, peaceful, always doing the will of God. Muhammad, on the other hand, began a series of raids on others, he stole from people, he killed those who criticized him, he claimed to have received a vision from God allowing his men to rape women. Muhammad himself had sex with a prepubescent girl. Nothing even remotely similar could ever be said or shown regarding Jesus Christ.


I do recognize your point that often Christians might lump all the branches of Islam into one, which is wrong. However, I wouldn’t think the important thing to do would be for each of us Christian branches to reveal our unique beliefs. The real question that should be asked is, “Who has the authority to interpret Sacred Scripture in the first place?� Wouldn't you agree that is kind of important? I mean why should we listen to what any religion has to say? Sure, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell can tell us what he thinks scripture means. John Calvin can give us his take. Martin Luther can give us his take, but we would first need to know our history to see who has been given Authority. It doesn't matter what Joe Schmo thinks if Joe Schmo does not have authority in the first place and this is something that can be known by studying and acknowledging history.



God would not have left us a book without an authorized interpreter. In fact it is His chosen authorized interpreter, the Catholic Church, who gave us this book in the first place. So just follow history to find His Church. Because He promised He would not leave His Church. Many Christians and even those of Islam hold on to their holy books as if the book interprets itself. The book needs an interpreter. When we fail to recognize that point we end up with different religions and different branches within those religions, all teaching different things. That is illogical. But that's what happens in the absence of an authoritative interpreter. If you just start going to each different branch of each religion and start reading about what they believe you are likely wasting your time. There is no way you could know if what they are telling you is true unless you know/ believe they have been given Authority. Good can be found outside God's Church but if you believe God established one true faith as our guide you should want to be sure it is there where you are receiving your information. Anyplace else might get some stuff right, but you could never really be sure which parts they were getting right and which parts they were getting wrong. So, the elephant in the room needs to be addressed. We don't find the true faith by listing all the tenants of our faith or we are just putting the cart before the horse. First, one should be prepared to delve into history to find God’s Church. You might be surprised at how many you can rule out just by starting there.


Another interesting point, at least in regard to Christianity is very few Christian faiths even claim to be the true Church. They don’t even believe they are the arbiters of truth. So, I’m really confused when so many choose to follow/listen to a church that admits it has no authority. Typically, what happens is people find churches that agree with them. For example if they struggle with same sex attraction, they might seek out a “Christian� church who teaches there is nothing wrong with homosexual acts. But as G.K. Chesterton said, “I don’t want a church to be right when I am right. I want a church to be right when I am wrong.�


Again, if you believe truth exists, you must admit it isn’t simply what we want it to be or even where we want it to be.

[Yusef]

[Replying to post 6 by RightReason]

Ahaaa..
It shows you've never read my posts yet!!
I wanted to reply your post part by part but i understood you haven't ever read those posts which...
You should tap on the link in the first post.
Well,

Before reading that post, i bring you examples to recognize your answers within them:

Debating with the new branch of Shi'ism, Ahmad-al-Hassan
about 30 years has been created a group that claims he is the same Sayyid Yemeni the appointed/assigned from the Twelver(pbu th)
And joined me to their own virtual group..
They asked me:

- Do you know 3 important flags will be appeared in the last time and one evill[Sufyani] rises then Sayyid Khurasani rises then Sayyid Yemeni rises and the Yemeni is better/truer/more truth than Khurasani and duty of Shi'a people is joining him!??

- Yes i do know

- Well, do you know selling weapons is Harram/forbidden in his time!?

- Yes i do know

- Do you know he rises against the Sufyani the wildest terrorist of all era!?

- Yes..

- Well, so what has made you doubtful about Ahmad-al-Hassan!??

- Whattt!!???? You've only brought details/descriptions/signs of the saint Al-Yamani
Take a while we expect you bring/provide that the Ahmad al-Hasan is the same Al-Yamani!

- Do you know that everyone deny/against him, will go to hell?

- Yes! Anyone deny Al-Yamani, NOT deny Ahmad al-Hasan!!
Prove you are Al-Yamani's army! Not other thing :l

- Do you know why Jews and Christians denied The Prophet Muhammad(S.A.A.W.A)!? because they said we have doubt about him as the last Prophet

- Nope!
These are two different things!
About the Prophet(S.A.A.W.A) there wasn't anything AGAINST him
We have Hadith that warns us to rising 3 personalities at once!
Sufyani , Khurasani, Yemeni
At one Year, one Month, one Day!

Take a while EVEN MOREEE!! there is Hadith about coming one Dajjal[anti-christ] from Basra!
And how can I follow one that he hasn't ever provided existence of Sufyani and Khurasani today that he can claim he is Al-Yemani!!
Plus there is a Hadith absolutely against him!!
Plus Al-Yemeni comes from Yemen and this Ahmad-al-Hasan is from Basra!!



Well,
It was our debating that they banned/rejected me from their group

Take a while here i brought you SIMILARITY of the book Revelation of John with our own Shi'a Hadiths here:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 753#954753

What answer you all branches of Christianity/Paulity have had to me!!
Answer these the most clear similarities that if i was been on the false way you can turn me in the right way..
Common answer there
I'm waiting..

[RightReason]

[Replying to Yusef]

Not sure if it is the language barrier or what, but your posts are very difficult to follow. I attempted to read some of your links, but they are all cut and pastes from your religion. They all seem to be based on a great deal of assumptions and somehow read Scripture as cryptic and something in which we need to look for clues and decode "true" meanings. However, such would not be the way of God.

I am not sure how to continue. I find much of what you have posted very contrived and without being offensive very cultish. It appears whoever wrote your copy and pastes has interjected a tremendous amount of speculation. It is very difficult to take it seriously.

[Yusef]

[Replying to post 8 by RightReason]

See dear,
I was told before that you should suppose all of my sayings are from satans through my mouth..
Exactly the descriptions of Dajjal[Anti-Christ]

Shi'a Hadith
Before coming the anti-Christ[Dajjal] will come 12 dajjals
(may they recognize their own workings and make Bada' within themselves and don't make people astray)
Also before the Mahdi, 12 Mahdies come.
Note: Mahdi means one who has been guided and guides others

You told in previous post that we should check history and recognize who has brought these many branches/beliefs..
Take a while i by these my signatures brought/taught you that you should assume all are from satans..

You should check WHAT HAS BEEN SAYING! not WHO HAS SAID!

Plus! About this government of iran, i debate with any its fan and they say You has been learned under the priest Allahyari[owner of the channel Ahl-ul-Bayit] whom is hard against this government
They tell me: Do you know his supporters are The U.S , Israel and Britain!?
I reply: Nope! Rather even the more! the same Satan/Iblis itself personally has come down and tells these things through his mouth!
things that all are with powerful reasonings and arguments!

Source:
Shi'a Hadith:
Hadhrat Ali(pbuh): "..you should look at what has been said, NOT who has said"

Plus,
I told you should assume all of mine are from satan,
Therefore
The first time you should read/look then
IF
recognize those are maybe changers your thoughts/idea/viewpoints
Then
Research again and check correctness of my QUOTING!
Then fear of God and accept them, or at least be stopped about enmity against my beliefs!

My name is Maytham means "one who steps studied/hard/with trust and doesn't clean his own foot prints/paths"
and I don't afraid of my own foolish previous personality
Because of:
1- it's not important because I claim i'm upgrading spiritually every day and don't afraid of the previous
As Qur'an SayS: "..indeed goodness' take out badness'"
2- it will be useful for those who are researcher and scholars or useful experience for people that realize one how has been changing How! At all it will make others HOPEFUL for changing/upgrading

Well, sometimes i look at my own previous posts from several years and realize that again there are many connections between them and those i'v written here!

For example an Ayah[Verse] of Qur'an that says about splitting the earth and swallowing the army of Sufyani

Aha i reminded that tell you about that copy/paste you mentioned:
Tell me Are we god??
Are we new prophets!??
Are we new messengers!??
Who we are that should bring sayings but quoting from them???

Again,
Tell us relationship/connection/similarity between the books Revelation/Qur'an/Hadith of Shi'a in that post,
Do they confirm/verify each other or not?!

Plus,
By reading that post you will realize one other meaning of my previous post here,
Means if i was instead of you Christians,
I would tell myself:
Well, there are these satanic personalities[Dragon/2beasts],
Well, so islam is all the same..
But one such as me that splits their own beliefs/branch from appear islam, and shows enmity between this branch and others,
Therefore you ask yourself Ahaaa so that was true that these 3 are within islam,
But these are enemies of the true part of Islam
And check them on the Crossword and research again
And at least be stopped in enmity versus Shi'a Islam untill coming the Saviour(pbuh)
Like Jews that are stopped in prophethood of Jesus and Muhammad and are waiting for coming Prophet Elijah(pbuh) for understanding their Truths both
In fact those are dogs of houses of the 12 saint disciples of Jesus(pbuh) but I mean this method is the better than one blindly be against Prophet Jesus(pbuh)
That is Stopped viewpoints by recognising powerful reasonings

I taught you method of debating in the previous post..
You should debate with me like that.
I'm waiting in that post you come and debate about the dragon and 2beasts

[RightReason]

[Replying to Yusef]

You should check WHAT HAS BEEN SAYING! not WHO HAS SAID!

I couldn’t disagree more. It must be established that who is speaking has authority to do so. If they do not, then what they say is irrelevant.

I'm waiting in that post you come and debate about the dragon and 2beasts

As Catholics, we reject the approach of those who use the book of Revelation to make wild guesses about the future or to create fear or mistrust among Christians or other religions or those who attempt to use Revelation to support their political agendas.


The book of Revelation basically gives us assurance that however bad things may be, one needs to recognize the triumph of good over evil in the end.

There is much evidence indicating parts of Revelation have already come to historical fulfillment. It is said Jerusalem became the unfaithful Whore of Babylon who was replaced by the faithful Bride of the Lamb, which is the New Israel – the Church. Of course Revelation also foretells a final apocalypse showing the destruction of God’s enemies and final victory for God which has not yet come to be.

Many have come along giving their opinion about what Revelation speaks of – about who are the beasts, etc. Of course, like I said above this has often been less about historical evidence and a proper reading of the text and more about political motivation or anti-religious bigotry.