King Of Kings

[StuartJ]

Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah - the King of Kings, the Avatar of the god Vishnu, was crowned King of the Nepalese.




Jesus the Christ - the King of Kings, the Avatar of the god Yahweh, was NEVER crowned King of the Jews.



I propose that declaring humans the "Son of God" is just political propaganda to keep the everyday folk in awe.

I propose that the whole Jesus business is just political propaganda.

Please debate that proposition directly.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 1 by StuartJ]

What are the arguments in support of your propositions?

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 1 by StuartJ]

What are the arguments in support of your propositions?

Check many of the topics I've started.

Now ...

Do you have arguments AGAINST my propositions ...?

[1213]

Jesus the Christ - the King of Kings, the Avatar of the god Yahweh, was NEVER crowned King of the Jews...
...I propose that the whole Jesus business is just political propaganda.

What would have been the purpose of political propaganda, in the case of Jesus? Jesus himself says his kingdom is not of this world, so isn’t it kind of illogical to compare him to earthly rulers?

However, also Jesus was crowned, according to the Bible.

They stripped him, and put a scarlet robe on him. They braided a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and a reed in his right hand; and they kneeled down before him, and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
Matt. 27:28-29

Pilate wrote a title also, and put it on the cross. There was written, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews therefore said to Pilate, "Don't write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'he said, I am King of the Jews.'" Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."
John 19:19-22

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 3 by StuartJ]

I'm not really into threads that share broad opinions and ask others to disprove them, rather than specifying and supporting their own claims. It's fine if you want to do that; perhaps I'll look at your other threads. I hope you all have a wonderful conversation!

[2ndRateMind]

...I propose that the whole Jesus business is just political propaganda...

My own suspicion is that Jesus knew Himself to be the 'Son of God', and felt no need to prove it to anyone. Rather, He just got on with living the best life He could, under the difficult circumstances of a corrupted Jewish hierarchy and Roman occupation, and went out of His way to save us, and especially those of us other people portrayed as irredeemable sinners. If that is political, as I too believe it to be, then so be it.

But propaganda? I don't think so, because the politics implicit in Jesus' religious mission seem to me inherently good, right, just, kind and true. Propaganda, by contrast, is about spreading lies the powers that be consider good for themselves, and they consider themselves only.

So, are we to follow the example Jesus set us, with the hope that if we do so, we might all just right enough of the world's wrongs to save it from human wrought destruction? Or just cynically dismiss Jesus and all His followers as misguided because we, like the propagandist, only ever consider what we believe to be directly good for ourselves?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[StuartJ]

And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David. Luke 1:32

Looks awfully like political propaganda right there.

Given that not a soul ever demonstrates that this "scripture" came in any way from the "Lord God".

I suggest, by way of rational explanation of the fantastical, that the Davids were believed to be god-kings ...

And they are the Sons of the Elohim of Genesis ...

And they have been written out of the propaganda as god-kings by the people who deposed them ...

And re-wrote the propaganda.

A simple, rational explanation, presented as a speculative hypothesis ...

In the absence of evidence.

[StuartJ]

Jesus the Christ - the King of Kings, the Avatar of the god Yahweh, was NEVER crowned King of the Jews...
...I propose that the whole Jesus business is just political propaganda.

What would have been the purpose of political propaganda, in the case of Jesus? Jesus himself says his kingdom is not of this world, so isn’t it kind of illogical to compare him to earthly rulers?

However, also Jesus was crowned, according to the Bible.

They stripped him, and put a scarlet robe on him. They braided a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and a reed in his right hand; and they kneeled down before him, and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
Matt. 27:28-29

Pilate wrote a title also, and put it on the cross. There was written, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews therefore said to Pilate, "Don't write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'he said, I am King of the Jews.'" Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."
John 19:19-22

What we see here looks to me like the Romans mocking a failed pretender to the David throne.

The Jesus character in the propaganda - who came to bring not peace but a sword - may have been involved in some form of insurrection that threatened the treaty the Jewish people had with the Romans, and the stability of the frontier.

TWICE riding a donkey to Herod's temple and TWICE no appearance of Yahweh and the armies of angels - which I suspect is what was SUPPOSED to happen - to overthrow the Romans

Is a very good reason for stringing him up.

I would have too.

We only have the propaganda of the losing side to base most of the story on.

Losing sides often don't like to give up entirely.

Hence the Jesus propaganda about being a "Saviour of all humanity", and the armies of angels showing up NEXT time, looks to me like political spin on the failure.

Given the COMPLETE ABSENCE of evidence that the propaganda came from "God" ...

And the involvement of "God" in the siring of the Divine Leader on a human virgin ...

I consider offering down-to-earth speculative hypotheses most reasonable.

And given that we have ONLy the propaganda of the losing side to work with, speculative hypotheses are possibly all we will ever have.

I see NO reason for getting into a state of the mind that assents to the proposition that the magical things in the propaganda are real.

But the door is still WIDE open ....

[StuartJ]

I offer the proposition that the whole Jesus business was human politics in an attempt to gain power.

Jesus failed.

But Jesus had a younger brother who succeeded in China.

There is as much evidence that Hong Xiuquan is the brother of Jesus as there is that Jesus is the son of Yahweh ...



Hong Xiuquan (Hakka: Fùng Siu-chhiòn) (1 January 1814[1] – 1 June 1864), born Hong Huoxiu and with the courtesy name Renkun, was a Hakka Chinese leader of the Taiping Rebellion against the Qing Dynasty. He established the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom over varying portions of southern China, with himself as the "Heavenly King" and self-proclaimed brother of Jesus Christ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Xiuquan

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 4 by 1213]

Jesus himself says his kingdom is not of this world, so isn’t it kind of illogical to compare him to earthly rulers?

Actually, the best you can say is that some anonymous writer made up those words and attributed them to a character named Jesus.

They stripped him, and put a scarlet robe on him. They braided a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and a reed in his right hand; and they kneeled down before him, and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
Matt. 27:28-29

OK as far as fiction goes and if you like that sort of thing.

Pilate wrote a title also, and put it on the cross. There was written, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews therefore said to Pilate, "Don't write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'he said, I am King of the Jews.'" Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."
John 19:19-22

Or so the story goes.