Atheism as a religion

[amortalman]

The following excerpt is from the National Catholic Register, www.ncregister.com :

But the truth is, atheism is the farthest thing in the world from simple absence of belief. Indeed, atheism is a whole system of beliefs—a system that has its own philosophy (materialism), morality (relativism), politics (social Darwinism), and culture (secularism). It even has its own sacraments (abortion and euthanasia). And this system of beliefs has been responsible for more death, carnage, persecution and misery than any system of beliefs the world has ever known.

Topic of debate: Do you agree or disagree with the statement above and why.

Edit Note: The web address for the National Catholic Register is incomplete. The article I referenced can be read at http://www.ncregister.com/blog/guest-bl ... is-atheism

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

I don't think we should define atheism as a simple absence of belief, but I don't agree with what is said about it here, either. I see atheism as one belief within a larger worldview and that there are different atheistic worldviews, just like there are many different theistic worldviews. I really don't understand the part about abortion and euthanasia being atheism's sacraments. I don't see how atheists think something like that.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

This statement is quite simply wrong:

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resou ... t-atheism/

"Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.

While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more humorous way: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resou ... t-atheism/

Of course, I'm sure theists will come along and explain how they understand atheism better than atheists do. It happens all the time when this question is asked. Their replies are never convincing, but their motivation is clear.

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

I don't think we should define atheism as a simple absence of belief, but I don't agree with what is said about it here, either. I see atheism as one belief within a larger worldview and that there are different atheistic worldviews, just like there are many different theistic worldviews.

I agree that the passage is way off base in its definition of atheism but I would be interested to know why you wouldn't define atheism as a simple absence of belief. Maybe you're grouping atheism with agnosticism, humanism, and other non-religious views but I think each has its own, distinct definition.

I really don't understand the part about abortion and euthanasia being atheism's sacraments. I don't see how atheists think something like that.

Atheism has no sacraments. The writer is grouping all atheists under one roof. I'm an agnostic but mostly politically conservation. I'm against abortion on most grounds but I think euthanasia could be a wonderful thing in certain cases such as the end stages of consenting terminal patients.

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

This statement is quite simply wrong:

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

With due respect, you just affirmed the statement you said was simply wrong.

[The Tanager]

I agree that the passage is way off base in its definition of atheism but I would be interested to know why you wouldn't define atheism as a simple absence of belief. Maybe you're grouping atheism with agnosticism, humanism, and other non-religious views but I think each has its own, distinct definition.

First off, I'm fine with whatever terms people want to describe themselves by. If it is a term that has been widely used in different ways, all I would expect is that they clearly define how they are using it so that we won't talk past each other. That's a general statement, not directed at you or anyone specifically.

To me, there seem to be three basic positions one can take on the god(s) question. You believe the god(s) most likely exist (including those who think it is 100% certain), you believe they probably don't exist (including those who think it is 100%), or you don't know which of those two is true. To me, theism describes the first, atheism the second and agnosticism the third.

Atheism has no sacraments. The writer is grouping all atheists under one roof. I'm an agnostic but mostly politically conservation. I'm against abortion on most grounds but I think euthanasia could be a wonderful thing in certain cases such as the end stages of consenting terminal patients.

Ah, yes, that makes sense of what they were trying to claim by that comment. I agree with you that all atheists don't agree on those things.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

This statement is quite simply wrong:

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

With due respect, you just affirmed the statement you said was simply wrong.

Perhaps you can give me a bit more to go on. What statement do you thing I was referring to and how did I affirm it?

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

This statement is quite simply wrong:

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

With due respect, you just affirmed the statement you said was simply wrong.

Perhaps you can give me a bit more to go on. What statement do you thing I was referring to and how did I affirm it?

I think you were referring to the statement you said is quite simply wrong. It matters not what atheism is NOT because it is not a lot of things. You affirmed the opening statement with the exact same words you previously denied, "Atheism...is a lack of belief in gods."

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

This statement is quite simply wrong:

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

With due respect, you just affirmed the statement you said was simply wrong.

Perhaps you can give me a bit more to go on. What statement do you thing I was referring to and how did I affirm it?

I think you were referring to the statement you said is quite simply wrong.

Obviously. Which statement do you think that is?

It matters not what atheism is NOT because it is not a lot of things. You affirmed the opening statement with the exact same words you previously denied, "Atheism...is a lack of belief in gods."

Sorry, you've lost me completely. Your reply was to my first statement. How could I have previously denied something in a previous statement when it was my first statement?

[brianbbs67]

I would disagree with the statement posted first. Disbelief would include a myriad of conflicting views. So, just as all thiests can't be lumped together , neither can athiests. I would add belief is not required for something to be true or false.