Helping Gauleiter88

[ttruscott]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

This post was stuck into another topic so I rescued the thought to give it its own weight. Good luck, Gauleiter88... ask your questions here.

[Gauleiter88]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

This post was stuck into another topic so I rescued the thought to give it its own weight. Good luck, Gauleiter88... ask your questions here.

Thanks. JWs reply to my previous post suggests a question. I have talked to several Christians who believe in the physical resurrection of the body and claim that we will have young healthy bodies forever in heaven. That seems incredible to me. Sex is a major occupation of young healthy bodies, and children are the result of sex. I won't go into the math here, but what would the population of heaven be after only a thousand years of such constant reproduction? A sewer system for such a large population would be a major engineering project, even for God.

Or are sex and children forbidden in heaven? I have heard women say that their children and grandchildren are the greatest joy in their life. Are we destined for an eternity in heaven without sex or children?

[JehovahsWitness]

Thanks. JWs reply to my previous post suggests a question. I have talked to several Christians who believe in the physical resurrection of the body and claim that we will have young healthy bodies forever in heaven.

I sincerely hope you do not believe that is what I was saying.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that eternal life for the majority of mankind will not be in heaven but right here on this our physical planet earth. Jesus said that the "meek shall inherit the earth" and we believe that it is this planet that is our collective destiny.


source: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... the-earth/

are sex and children forbidden [strike]in heaven[/strike] on earth? I have heard women say that their children and grandchildren are the greatest joy in their life. Are we destined for an eternity [strike]in heaven[/strike] on earth without sex or children?

I repeat, the bible promises eternal life on EARTH. Food, drink, fulfilling work, good health and yes, sex and children will be a feature of this coming paradise on earth.


Further reading
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... or-humans/

[Gauleiter88]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

You miss my point. With young healthy bodies and no death on earth for a thousand years, reproduction and overpopulation would be the problem. MY calculator won't handle the math, but a quick estimate is that, even if the oceans were dried up, the entire surface of the earth would be densely packed with human bodies, ten deep. No room to move, and many would be crushed by the weight of bodies above them.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sex is a major occupation of young healthy bodies, and children are the result of sex. I won't go into the math here, but what would the population of heaven be after only a thousand years of such constant reproduction?

With young healthy bodies and no death on earth for a thousand years, reproduction and overpopulation would be the problem.

QUESTION: Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?

There is the potential for this problem but looking back to the bible we can learn a lot from God's original command to Adam and Eve.

GENESIS 1:28
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth - ESV

So the original command was for humans to "fill the earth" not over populate it.

To illustrate: Imagine that someone told you to get them a glass of water and "fill the glass" would you hold the glass under the tap until the glass was over flowing or let it continue until the water flooded over the sink onto the floor filling the entire house?



Or would you turn off the supply when the glass was comfortably full (Not to the very brim but "full" to the point you could easily carry it to the person without it spilling over the top onto the floor)

In a similar way God's original purpose (one that still stands) is that the earth be (comfortably) full. The planet restored to its original productive condition without vast areas of inhabitable land, can comfortably handle many billions of people [*][/color]. What the future holds after that the bible does not say, any speculation of moving on to other planets or ceasing to reproduce via the removal of the desire to have children... or some other means ... are just that, speculative. What we can be confident of though is that the original promise of a "full" not "overpopulated" earth will be mankind's destiny.


[*][/color]The earth's land area is more than 36,000,000,000 acres (15,000,000,000 ha). A population of 15 billion people on earth would allow more than two acres (1 ha) per person. Not only would this provide space for food production but it would also allow for forests, mountains, and other scenic areas with no undue crowding.



NOTE: Sex and reproduction are not features of heavenly life since spirits are not sexual beings and do not reproduce.






RELATED POSTS



Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 37#p832237

Were humans designed to live forever?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p815882

If death will be eliminated, why will animals not live forever in paradise ?
viewtopic.php?p=956006#p956006

To learn more please go to other posts related to

LIFE, DEATH and ...THE HUMAN SOUL

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Gauleiter88]

Sex is a major occupation of young healthy bodies, and children are the result of sex. I won't go into the math here, but what would the population of heaven be after only a thousand years of such constant reproduction?

QUESTION: Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?

There is the potential for this problem but looking back to the bible we can learn a lot from God's original command to Adam and Eve.

GENESIS 1:28
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth - ESV

So the original command was for humans to "fill the earth" not over populate it.

To illustrate: Imagine that someone told you to get them a glass of water and "fill the glass" would you hold the glass under the tap until the glass was over flowing or let it continue until the water flooded over the sink onto the floor filling the entire house? Or would you turn off the supply when the glass was comfortably full (Not to the very brim but "full" to the point you could easily carry it to the person without it spilling over the top onto the floor)

In a similar way God's original purpose (one that still stands) is that the earth be (comfortably) full. The planet restrored to it original productive condition without vast areas of inhabitable land, can comfortably handle many billions of people[*][/color]. What the future holds after that the bible does not say, any speculation of moving on to other planets or ceasing to reproduce are just that, speculative. What we can be confident of though is that the original promise of a "full" not "overpopulated" earth will be mankind's destiny.


[*][/color]The earth’s land area is more than 36,000,000,000 acres (15,000,000,000 ha). A population of 15 billion people on earth would allow more than two acres (1 ha) per person. Not only would this provide space for food production but it would also allow for forests, mountains, and other scenic areas—with no undue crowding.



NOTE: Sex and reproduction are not features of heavenly life since spirits are not sexual beings and do not reproduce.

Yes, except that the first woman created in Genesis 1:27 WAS NOT EVE. Eve was not created until later in Genesis 2:22 in the Garden of Eden from Adam's rib, not from the dust of the earth. This first woman was intended to share dominion equally with Adam, but Eve was created only to serve as his "helpmeet."

This first woman is not mentioned again in the Bible, but the Jewish legend of Lilith, the first wife of Adam, tells her story. Lilith was proud and independent and when Adam attempted to dominate her, she left him. Using a secret "word of power" given to her by God, she flew over the walls of Eden and fled into the wilderness. When Adam comlained to God that his wife had left him, God sent three angels after her. The angels found Lilith, but they could not force her to return to Adam. Instead, they negotiated an agreement with her, whereby she voluntarily accepted demonization in return for her freedom and immortality. The demon Lilith still lives among us. She flies at night during storms and may enter a human home to steal away the life of a newborn child or seduce the man. Lilith may be prevented from entering a human home by posting the names of the three angels over the door, Senoi, Sansenoi and Semangeloff.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 4 by Gauleiter88]

QUESITON: How long will it take to "fill the earth"?

We simply cannot answer that question with exactitude. That said there are a few points that should be noted.

#1 Mankind faces the destruction of the wicked and the majority of those alive today will be destroyed. We do not know who or how many will survive the coming destruction of the wicked, but we know that during Noahs day only 7 survived. Jesus indicated that by far the majority of people will not take note of Jehovah God's warnings and will be destroyed, so effectively the population will drop to millions rather than billions.

#2 Not everyone that died will be resurrected. God does intend to bring many millions maybe billions of people back to life, but he will judge some as being unworthy. It has been estimated that the total population throughout all human history at about 15,000,000,000 persons, an number the planet could comfortably handles, but as I said, although many maybe billions will return the bible does not say all those that have died will be resurrected.

#3 The birth rate will not necessarily be prolific. Few women want to be constantly pregnant or give birth to hundreds of children. With so much to do in the paradise and so many other intersts to pursue, many will no doubt choose not to be constantly giving birth. Further the maternal instinct is stronger in some women than in others, so some women may chose not to have children (as is the case today) or to have only a few. While any birth rate will naturally contribute to the overall population, prolific reproduction at a stupendous rate will not necessarily be a feature of the new world. It took over 5,000 years for the earth’s population to reach one billion in the early 1800’s (some will say longer), even without death, starting with the post-Armageddon population the potential problem of overpopulation would be many thousands of years down the line.

CONCLUSION: We can only specutulate as to how long it would take to comfortably fill the earth since we do not know how many people will survive Armageddon (the coming destruction of the wicked) or how many will eventually be resurrected. What we can be confident of is that God is aware that the planet is limited in its capacity and has foreseen in his wisdom measures in this regard.

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, except that the first woman created in Genesis 1:27 WAS NOT EVE. Eve was not created until later in Genesis 2:22 in the Garden of Eden from Adam's rib, not from the dust of the earth. This first woman was intended to share dominion equally with Adam, but Eve was created only to serve as his "helpmeet."

How is that in any way relevant to the point I was making? Whatever the first woman's name was, and however she came about, God expressed his purpose that the earth eventually be filled not overpopulated.

JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

QUESITON: How long will it take to "fill the earth"?

We simply cannot answer that question with exactitude. That said there are a few points that should be noted.

Those who can't do the math can't answer the question, I suppose.

Human beings came on the scene about 100, 000 years ago.
Now, there are about 7 billion of us.

That averages to about 70,000 per year, if we start off with 100,000. Which is I think the number JW's would like to start off ... correct me if I'm wrong.

So, in another 100, 000 years, we will be back to 7 billion.
In a million years, we will be up to 70 billion. I can see a problem developing if people don't stop having babies. We are starting to have global problems with just the 7 billion that we have now.

Now.. eternity is a long time.. when do people start restricting child birth?

It may be that Jehovah will use magic to make the world ... not the way that it is now. With magic, everything is possible. Magic is the answer to everything.

Maybe the earth will be transformed into something like the Tartus of "Doctor Who" fame.. the inside is bigger than the outside or something like that.. apples trees that provide a delicious apple immediately after one is plucked. Bread ovens that magically keep producing wonderful fresh bread every time we open the door. Taps that never stop providing the best spring water imaginable, without being connected to any water sources.

Everything magical like that might work.

Magic answers each and every question, doesn't it?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

How is that in any way relevant to the point I was making? Whatever the first woman's name was, and however she came about, God expressed his purpose that the earth eventually be filled not overpopulated.

So, any idea how God will take care of the problem of over-population?