Does America have a rape culture?

[FinalEnigma]

I ended up in this discussion on facebook, and it got pretty absurd at times, and I was hoping to find a bit more rational of a discussion on the topic here.

So, here are my working definitions.

Rape: For the purpose of this debate, I am defining rape as
Any instance of a sexual act where there is a disparity in(the binary state of) consent. That is, when one of the involved individuals either explicitly or implicitly refuses or revokes consent (such as saying 'no', physically resisting, etc.), is incapable of giving informed consent, including both long term and short term states (such as being underage or mentally deficient, or being drunk beyond sensibility without a pre-existing agreement that sex in this state was consented to), or is not given the opportunity to consent (such as through the use of date-rape drugs).

Rape Culture: For the purpose of this debate, I am defining rape culture as a culture which meets one of the following conditions:
1)A culture in which the mainstream view is that rape is morally acceptable, that women who have been raped have provoked their attacker, that commission of rape should not be punished, or that rape is a natural and normal thing that men do.

2) A culture in which rape is routinely used as punishment, is a standard rite of passage, or is used as a means of control.


For debate:

does the United States of America have a rape culture?

[Paprika]

It has a rape culture culture. By that I mean that there exists a culture where people are hysterical about 'rape culture'.

Also, by your definition, if both individuals are drunk they both rape each other.

[FinalEnigma]

It has a rape culture culture. By that I mean that there exists a culture where people are hysterical about 'rape culture'.

Also, by your definition, if both individuals are drunk they both rape each other.

actually no, because my definition says a disparity in consent, and 'when one of the parties'. that means when one party and not the other. If both parties are drunk then obviously they are at the same level of capability for consent.

[Paprika]

It has a rape culture culture. By that I mean that there exists a culture where people are hysterical about 'rape culture'.

Also, by your definition, if both individuals are drunk they both rape each other.

actually no, because my definition says a disparity in consent, and 'when one of the parties'. that means when one party and not the other. If both parties are drunk then obviously they are at the same level of capability for consent.

Righto, thanks for the clarification. It's actually important because many of the 'rape activists' will cry that if a male and female are drunk when they have sex there was 'raaaaaape' of the female. That's rape culture culture for you.

[FinalEnigma]

It has a rape culture culture. By that I mean that there exists a culture where people are hysterical about 'rape culture'.

Also, by your definition, if both individuals are drunk they both rape each other.

actually no, because my definition says a disparity in consent, and 'when one of the parties'. that means when one party and not the other. If both parties are drunk then obviously they are at the same level of capability for consent.

Righto, thanks for the clarification. It's actually important because many of the 'rape activists' will cry that if a male and female are drunk when they have sex there was 'raaaaaape' of the female. That's rape culture culture for you.

Yes, I frequently find myself at odds with this kind of mentality. This is why my definition is so carefully worded. I specifically didn't include gender references, and tried hard to construct is so as to avoid stupid instances like two people simultaneously raping each other.

I've run into people making insistences even such that consent can be revoked after the fact, which is patently absurd. Or, in the case of two people who got drunk together and had drunk-consensual sex, that whether someone was raped or not depends on whether or not they consciously remember consenting when they wake up the next day. NOT on whether they consented, but on whether they REMEMBERED if they consented.

Personally, I think that whether someone has been raped is not a matter of opinion.


One bit I'm not sure of is the matter of intent. Say for example that one person rapes another, but somehow doesn't realize that the other didn't consent (maybe the other person was forced by an outside person to pretend to be into it).

In that case, the victim could legitimately feel raped, but would the other person be a rapist for having been the person who did it?

[Paprika]

Yes, I frequently find myself at odds with this kind of mentality. This is why my definition is so carefully worded. I specifically didn't include gender references, and tried hard to construct is so as to avoid stupid instances like two people simultaneously raping each other.

I've run into people making insistences even such that consent can be revoked after the fact, which is patently absurd. Or, in the case of two people who got drunk together and had drunk-consensual sex, that whether someone was raped or not depends on whether or not they consciously remember consenting when they wake up the next day. NOT on whether they consented, but on whether they REMEMBERED if they consented.

Personally, I think that whether someone has been raped is not a matter of opinion.

So you've encountered rape culture culture yourself. It is quite ridiculous.

One bit I'm not sure of is the matter of intent. Say for example that one person rapes another, but somehow doesn't realize that the other didn't consent (maybe the other person was forced by an outside person to pretend to be into it).

In that case, the victim could legitimately feel raped, but would the other person be a rapist for having been the person who did it?

I'm really not sure how a person can 'somehow doesn't realize that the other didn't consent'.

[FinalEnigma]

Yes, I frequently find myself at odds with this kind of mentality. This is why my definition is so carefully worded. I specifically didn't include gender references, and tried hard to construct is so as to avoid stupid instances like two people simultaneously raping each other.

I've run into people making insistences even such that consent can be revoked after the fact, which is patently absurd. Or, in the case of two people who got drunk together and had drunk-consensual sex, that whether someone was raped or not depends on whether or not they consciously remember consenting when they wake up the next day. NOT on whether they consented, but on whether they REMEMBERED if they consented.

Personally, I think that whether someone has been raped is not a matter of opinion.

So you've encountered rape culture culture yourself. It is quite ridiculous.

One bit I'm not sure of is the matter of intent. Say for example that one person rapes another, but somehow doesn't realize that the other didn't consent (maybe the other person was forced by an outside person to pretend to be into it).

In that case, the victim could legitimately feel raped, but would the other person be a rapist for having been the person who did it?

I'm really not sure how a person can 'somehow doesn't realize that the other didn't consent'.

That's why I included the somehow - it might have to be awfully contrived. Although some scenarios are possible, I'm sure.
What if it's consensual non-consent and the victim forgets their safe word?
Or what if it's consensual non-consent and there is no safe word, and the victim changes their mind partway through?
What if someone has been drugged by a third party into a mental state where they do not understand what they are doing and then rape someone?
What if the aggressor is mentally deficient in some way to the extent that they do not understand consent?

What I was trying to get at was the question of whether there could be a situation in which a person has been raped, but the person who did it has not raped. (or has not done so through their own fault, or for some reason cannot be held morally accountable).

[Donray]

The actual rape culture was set up by the GOD of the bible.

That God told the solders to rape virgins. And God said that rape victims should be punished.

Do you think of raping woman? Then way do you think there is a rape culture?

Unless you have same facts to support your position then no, there is no rape culture.

Prove that rape per thousand females is greater now than in 1500.

We know that the lands where the God of the bible started was a rape culture since the God approved.

[FinalEnigma]

Do you think of raping woman? Then way do you think there is a rape culture?

Unless you have same facts to support your position then no, there is no rape culture.

Prove that rape per thousand females is greater now than in 1500.

err, what?

I haven't actually stated a position on whether or not America has a rape culture, I've just asked questions. So no, I'll not defend a position I haven't taken, thank you.

The actual rape culture was set up by the GOD of the bible.

That God told the solders to rape virgins. And God said that rape victims should be punished.

We know that the lands where the God of the bible started was a rape culture since the God approved.

Well, no, that's blatantly untrue, but it's also entirely beside the point.

[Donray]

Do you think of raping woman? Then way do you think there is a rape culture?

Unless you have same facts to support your position then no, there is no rape culture.

Prove that rape per thousand females is greater now than in 1500.

err, what?

I haven't actually stated a position on whether or not America has a rape culture, I've just asked questions. So no, I'll not defend a position I haven't taken, thank you.

The actual rape culture was set up by the GOD of the bible.

That God told the solders to rape virgins. And God said that rape victims should be punished.

We know that the lands where the God of the bible started was a rape culture since the God approved.

Well, no, that's blatantly untrue, but it's also entirely beside the point.

You asked if the USA has a rape culture. But you have no idea if there is or is not. Most people would have some point of view on the topic they laid out.

Of course you have no idea if the is more rape now and you don't want to know.

And yes the bible does have to do with rape and what is a rape culture.

The bible is full of rape and incest. God does not mind rape and that is why religious leaders rape a lot of there members. So there is a Christian rape culture. Is that you you want to discuss?