Moderator: Moderators
So, the questions for debate are:1John2_26 wrote:I consider what is happening to Christians as a hate crime. And liberal theologians are on the side of the hatred.
Too many anti-Christians are in political power or the Christians that have political office have been terrorized as proponents of hate if they promote morality.Are the perpetrators of these alleged hate crimes being prosecuted? If not, why not?
By being anti-Christs and destroying the ability of real believers a place of worship. Many Churches are broken to pieces by Godless (liberal) clergy taking over. "Christianty Must Change or Die!" A popular book by aAre liberal theologians participating in these hate crimes? If so, in what way?
Schenectady school denies recognition to student Christian club
ADF attorney sends information letter to school in defense of high school senior
Thursday, January 05, 2006,
SCHENECTADY, N.Y. - Schenectady High School's refusal to grant official recognition to a Christian club that a group of students is seeking to organize on campus has generated a letter from the Alliance Defense Fund informing school officials that they are in violation of the students' First Amendment and equal access rights.
"Christian students on campus should not be treated as second-class citizens," said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Jeff Shafer. "The Supreme Court has affirmed in no uncertain terms the right of religious clubs to meet on public school campuses to the same extent as other kinds of clubs. The requirement of equal access means just that--equal. School officials do not have the prerogative to open up their facilities to any and every extra-curricular group and at the same time deny access to a Christian student group."
Since 2003, a group of students at Schenectady High School have been seeking official recognition of the Schenectady High School Christian Alliance, but school officials so far have refused to grant recognition to the club. A student contacted ADF for help, and soon thereafter Shafer sent a letter to school officials advising them to honor the student's constitutional rights in order to avoid unnecessary legal action. To date, the school district has not responded.
"Public officials are constitutionally forbidden to enforce policies hostile to the First Amendment rights of students," said Shafer. "The refusal of school officials to grant recognition to this student club is without excuse."
Other groups on campus that enjoy recognized club status include Spectrum Gay/Straight Alliance, Amnesty International, and SOS (Save Our Sphere), an environmental club. Official recognition by the school carries with it the access to certain privileges and facilities, such as use of the public address system, bulletin boards, and classroom space.
A copy of the information letter sent to the Schenectady school board can be read at www.telladf.org/UserDocs/SchenectadyLetter.pdf.
ADF is a legal alliance defending America's first liberty--religious freedom--through strategy, training, funding, and litigation.
Yes, but that's by other christians, isn't it? Who burns black churches? Liberals? Atheists? Hindus? No, it's conservative white christians.The vandalism of Churches is abundant in America and worldwide.
The vandalism of Churches is abundant in America and worldwide.
Ridiculous. Bush claims to be a Born-Again Christian, and so does his entire cabinet.Too many anti-Christians are in political power or the Christians that have political office have been terrorized as proponents of hate if they promote morality.
Because you are using a straw man attempt to insinuate that anyone that does not believe is the anti-christ.By being anti-Christs and destroying the ability of real believers a place of worship. Many Churches are broken to pieces by Godless (liberal) clergy taking over. "Christianty Must Change or Die!" A popular book by a
"Christian" Reverend. One guess what he advocates?
Are they being prosecuted? If not, why not?
How so?Because they have crept in and have become the authority over decent believers. The split in the Anglican church would be a prime example. No one that saides with the anti-religious (Christianty) secular agenda is going to find prosecution.
"Abundant"? That sounds like hyperbole. And that is still not evidence of "hate crime" rather than young hoodlums or druggies breaking in. Are the churches being TARGETED and so because they are Christian places of worship? Or is that a silly claim of yours?1John2_26 wrote:Are Christians the target of hate crimes?
If so please indicate specific details.
The vandalism of Churches is abundant in America and worldwide.
Hmm, that doesn't seem to match with the reality of politicians clammoring to declare themselves as Christians. It seems like your claims really have nothing to do with reality. Are you just making thuis up because you WANT to feel like a wictim, or do you have an actual foundation for your claims?Are the perpetrators of these alleged hate crimes being prosecuted? If not, why not?
Too many anti-Christians are in political power or the Christians that have political office have been terrorized as proponents of hate if they promote morality.
Claiming that Christians are destroying places of worship seems stupid. Do you have evidence for this? Or are you saying that because radical conservative extreemist fundies are not in the majortiy, they don't get to impose their hate mongering oppression on everybody else? Is THAT what you are bemoaning? Sure seems like it.Are liberal theologians participating in these hate crimes? If so, in what way?
By being anti-Christs and destroying the ability of real believers a place of worship.
Really? "many churches"? There you go again, postulating a "just because I say so" belief as factual. How dishonest of you to so bear false Witness.Many Churches are broken to pieces by Godless (liberal) clergy taking over.
Never heard of it. Can't be that mainstream."Christianty Must Change or Die!" A popular book by a
"Christian" Reverend. One guess what he advocates?
Ah, so what really is going on here is you claiming that disagreement with you is a "hate crime." This is just to idiotic a clam.Are they being prosecuted? If not, why not?
Because they have crept in and have become the authority over decent believers.
How is that a hate crime? You are again spewing nonsense far removed from reality.The split in the Anglican church would be a prime example.
And how is this fictitious "agenda" of yours an actual "hate crime"?No one that saides with the anti-religious (Christianty) secular agenda is going to find prosecution.
It all began when Pastor Lou Sheldon, founder of the Traditional Values Coalition, was invited to the church to speak on the topic of homosexuality. Homosexual activists caught wind of the meeting and leaked the story to the San Francisco press. The Bay Area Reporter responded quickly and published a front-page article using language guaranteed to inflame the local homosexual community. Immediately, an avalanche of telephone calls began pouring into the church, demanding the guest speaker not be allowed to speak.
By the time the service began, the church property was swarming with homosexual and lesbian demonstrators. Alarmed that the situation was out of control, Pastor David Innes called the authorities and asked for more police backup. Innes could hardly believe his ears when he was told, "This is San Francisco." What followed is best described by one who was there.
"Pastor Charles and Donna McIlhenny were refused entry by the rioters. ... The doors were completely blocked. ... Pastor McIlhenny held on to Donna as they began to make their way through the mob who were shouting and screaming in their ears, 'You will not enter this church!' The rioters assaulted them, pushing and shoving them, seeking to keep them from the front door. One of them grabbed Donna's body, lifting her off the ground, and another put his arms completely around her, attempting to pull her back away from the entry. She stretched her arms out for help from a nearby police officer who offered her no assistance. Her son, seeing she was in trouble, pleaded with the officers to assist her. The officers ... were unable to take control of the situation. ...
"As they made their way past the three officers at the door they were pelted by rocks ... The rioters removed the Christian flag from the flagpole and attached the gay flag under the U.S. flag ... When the caretaker ... attempted to remove the gay flag, he was assaulted and pelted with eggs. ... A single parent who is a church member and her six-year-old daughter were told they could not enter the building. A rioter grabbed her daughter's arm as she was clinging to her mother and began interrogating her. ... The rioters then laid down in the intersection of Geary and Franklin Streets, blocking all traffic. ... A woman demonstrator exposed her bare breasts to church members present in the area. ... People were shouted at and threatened by the rioters as they made their way to their cars, called 'Christian bigots,' hypocrites, fascists, homophobes, and other expletives, some obscene. ... When the rioters saw children standing in the lobby, they shouted, 'We want your children! Give us your children!'... A nine-year-old boy was crying in hysterics. 'They are after me. It's me they want.' ... In spite of all this malicious disruption, not a single arrest was made by the police."1
It's difficult to believe this could happen in twentieth century America, isn't it? We might gain some comfort if this were an isolated case, but unfortunately it isn't. Members of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California, also found themselves the focus of homosexual demonstrators. Angry over the church's outreach to the Orange County gay community, militant homosexuals invaded the church's Sunday morning service. Filling aisles, they shouted and fondled themselves in full view of families in the congregation.2
Another incredible incident involved a Family Concerns Conference brunch at First Baptist Church in Atlanta where a group of AIDS demonstrators infiltrated the meeting and threw hundreds of condoms at the attendees while chanting "safer sex saves lives." No arrests were made even though the police had to remove the demonstrators from the church's private property.3
You shouldn't be overly surprised by these stories. Jesus predicted such things would happen near the end of time. "Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed." Luke 17:28-30.
I think the obvious answer is "no". Christians are the majority here in the USA. They get killed and beaten on the daily basis, but for all the usual reasons (robbery, crime of passion, Mafia disputes, whatever), not because of their religion.
This is off-topic, but I find the term "hate crime" sort of ridiculous. Crime is crime. If I kill somebody, it's murder regardless of why I did it.
A better question might be, "are Christians being routinely murdered or injured in this country, solely because they're Christians -- similarly to how gay people are (or, hopefully, used to be) routinely persecuted just for being gay ?"
No of course. Wouldn't want to mention unarmed Christians shot and killed today. By the way are gays being shot by Jihad warriors?Islamic countries are a different story, of course...
I believe that a "hate crime" is one where the main motivation is hatred towards an identified group of people as opposed to a crime of passion, revenge, opportunity or greed.tselem wrote:I think the term "hate crime" should be defined, as there are a number of manners in which one could use the term.
