Revolution

Two hot topics for the price of one

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Nickman
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Revolution

Post #1

Post by Nickman »

Many Christians have claimed that the US constitution is a work of god. Would a Revolution against it for a better government be a sin against god's established law? Lets say that our government in the USA becomes a Christian based government. Would it be heretical to oppose it? Think back to King Geaorge before you answer.

Haven

Post #2

Post by Haven »

I can't say that this is what all Christians believe, but according to a plain reading of the New Testament, any revolution carried out for any reason would be sinful because all political rulers (even Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.) are given power to rule by God. Paul's words in Romans 13 illustrates this:
[color=darkred]Paul, in Romans 13:1-7[/color] wrote:Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.

If you do something wrong, you ought to be afraid, because these rulers have the right to punish you. They are God’s servants who punish criminals to show how angry God is. 5 But you should obey the rulers because you know it is the right thing to do, and not just because of God’s anger.

6 You must also pay your taxes. The authorities are God’s servants, and it is their duty to take care of these matters. 7 Pay all that you owe, whether it is taxes and fees or respect and honor.
That doesn't seem to leave any revolutionary option for the Christian.

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marketandchurch
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Post #3

Post by marketandchurch »

Sourced from a God-based text is the prevailing view amongst 90% of Christians I currently know. I used to know a few examples, some time ago, who do argue that the constitution came straight from the mind of God, but in my experience, that is largely an evangelical fringe. But my experience is limited is limited in many respects, I've attended a Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, and Rod Parsley tours or services in the past, and I watch John Hagee a lot. Which crowd says that the constitution is a work of God?

WinePusher

Re: Revolution

Post #4

Post by WinePusher »

Nickman wrote: Many Christians have claimed that the US constitution is a work of god. Would a Revolution against it for a better government be a sin against god's established law?
The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.

Haven

Re: Revolution

Post #5

Post by Haven »

[color=red]WinePusher[/color] wrote: The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.
You've provided no evidence for the above, but even if it is true that the US Constitution is the greatest political document in the world (whatever that may mean), it's still -- assuming a Biblical Christian worldview -- the result of a sinful rebellion against the British Empire. This is because the Bible forbids all political resistance or revolution, as Romans 13 states.

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Nilloc James
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Re: Revolution

Post #6

Post by Nilloc James »

WinePusher wrote:
Nickman wrote: Many Christians have claimed that the US constitution is a work of god. Would a Revolution against it for a better government be a sin against god's established law?
The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.
Unprovable statement. I agree it's a good system - unequivocaley the best seems like nationalist chest beating though.

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Nickman
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Re: Revolution

Post #7

Post by Nickman »

WinePusher wrote:
Nickman wrote: Many Christians have claimed that the US constitution is a work of god. Would a Revolution against it for a better government be a sin against god's established law?
The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.
The Roman Republic lasted 500+ years. The Roman Empire lasted 350+ years. They were great systems of government. The political system in the US may be the best right this moment but its not the best of all time. Even the best forms of government fall. Our Government has only been around for 240+ years. Only time will tell.

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Re: Revolution

Post #8

Post by Nickman »

oopsies

WinePusher

Re: Revolution

Post #9

Post by WinePusher »

Haven wrote:
[color=red]WinePusher[/color] wrote: The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.
You've provided no evidence for the above, but even if it is true that the US Constitution is the greatest political document in the world (whatever that may mean), it's still -- assuming a Biblical Christian worldview -- the result of a sinful rebellion against the British Empire. This is because the Bible forbids all political resistance or revolution, as Romans 13 states.
If we're judging it by the standard of political freedom, then the structure of government in the United States is absolutely the best. We have a bicameral legislature that gives the people more power in the political process, unlike a unicameral legislature that most governments have. We have a seperate executive and legislature, unlike countries like the UK where the executive is chosen from and is a part of the parliament. We have power divided amoung state governments and the federal government (federalism) and we have numerous things such as recall intiatives, ballot measures, etc that are fundamental cores of democracy. Why can't people on the left just praise the United States for once and admit we have the best form of government and that other nations should try to emulate it?

As for the passage you cite from Romans 13, I would say that your fundamentalist interpretation of it is incorrect. You have to take into context the people whom Paul wrote to and the purpose and intent of Paul and the message he is trying to get across. This is a common practice in Pauline exegesis.What he said may have been right for the people at that time, but it certainly is not true when we look at the American Revolution, where the 'authorities' were not executing their power justly and appropriately.

WinePusher

Re: Revolution

Post #10

Post by WinePusher »

Nickman wrote:
WinePusher wrote:
Nickman wrote: Many Christians have claimed that the US constitution is a work of god. Would a Revolution against it for a better government be a sin against god's established law?
The United States has the best political system in the world, and it's entirely due to the constitution. There is nothing better than what the United States has. The United States has the best form of government.
The Roman Republic lasted 500+ years. The Roman Empire lasted 350+ years. They were great systems of government. The political system in the US may be the best right this moment but its not the best of all time. Even the best forms of government fall. Our Government has only been around for 240+ years. Only time will tell.
The Roman Republic was a good form of government if we're approaching this issue form the perspective of political freedom, but the Roman Empire certainly wasn't. It depends on how you define what a good government is. My definition is where the people in society have free and fair elections, there are checks on governmental power, term limits, etc. The United States does this the best. Will there be a government system that is more free than the one we currently have? Possibly, but unlikely. Only people who oppose freedom and liberty would want to overthrow the current United States government and implement a new form of governance.

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