The U.S. Government shutdown...

[nursebenjamin]

If there is a government shutdown in the United States, who's to blame: the Republications, Democrats, or do both parties share equal blame? The question for debate is who should be blamed and why.

I blame the Democrats for a failure to stand up for their core principles, and the complete failure to articulate a loud and clear message.

However, the Republicans more responsible for the budget impasse. Senate Democrats have agreed to cut 33 billion dollars for the budget; the Tea Party faction of the Republican Party wants 40 billion. The difference is only 7 billion dollars, which is about how much we spend in Iraq each day. The Republicans don’t really care about a balanced budget, as evidence on their insistence late last year to extend the Bush-era tax cut to the wealthy. It’s estimated that the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy will cost the Government $700 billion dollars over the next ten years.

The real issue at hand is ideology, not the budget. The Republicans are trying to create a crisis for the purpose of manipulating the public to turn against popular programs that are pet projects of the Democratic Party. Programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, community heath centers, EPA, Department of Education, etc… The Republican leadership also seek to slow the economic recovery, which they feel will hurt Obama at the polls in 2012.

[nygreenguy]

I blame all of them.

The republicans only focus on discretionary spending (up until quite recently) which is a tiny fraction of the budget, but has the largest social benefits.

The fact there is no talks about taxes is irritating. Closing many of the loopholes that allow companies with tens and hundreds of billions in worldwide profits to get tax refunds can make a significant difference. Nearly 50% of americans had a tax burden of $0 this year, so to say we are overtaxed is ridiculous. Corporate and individual tax rates are at a recent record low. The fact that increasing revenue through taxes isnt even mentioned is disturbing.

The democrats refuse to talk about non-discretionary spending, or really do anything outside of complaining how the republican cuts will hurt the people. While I agree with this, they need to then offer a viable alternative.

Close our overseas military bases. Seriously, just get out. raise the retirement age. Increase employee contribution to SS and medicare. Change the payouts to the wealthy.

Ugh...its just so frustrating.

[dianaiad]

I blame all of them.

The republicans only focus on discretionary spending (up until quite recently) which is a tiny fraction of the budget, but has the largest social benefits.

The fact there is no talks about taxes is irritating. Closing many of the loopholes that allow companies with tens and hundreds of billions in worldwide profits to get tax refunds can make a significant difference. Nearly 50% of americans had a tax burden of $0 this year, so to say we are overtaxed is ridiculous. Corporate and individual tax rates are at a recent record low. The fact that increasing revenue through taxes isnt even mentioned is disturbing.

The democrats refuse to talk about non-discretionary spending, or really do anything outside of complaining how the republican cuts will hurt the people. While I agree with this, they need to then offer a viable alternative.

Close our overseas military bases. Seriously, just get out. raise the retirement age. Increase employee contribution to SS and medicare. Change the payouts to the wealthy.

Ugh...its just so frustrating.

I blame Arianna Huffington for the whole thing.

..........because, well, why not?

[FrostyM288]

I blame both sides, but mostly the two party system.

Members of either party are forced to align themselves with the middle ground of the party (which in both cases are extreme compared to the moderate ground we should always be aiming for) or else suffer the party's wrath (and their possibilities of re-election).

In the end, we always end up with a particularly liberal or conservative government as opposed to the moderate one a majority of us would agree upon (or the least of us would disagree with).

[dianaiad]

I blame both sides, but mostly the two party system.

Members of either party are forced to align themselves with the middle ground of the party (which in both cases are extreme compared to the moderate ground we should always be aiming for) or else suffer the party's wrath (and their possibilities of re-election).

In the end, we always end up with a particularly liberal or conservative government as opposed to the moderate one a majority of us would agree upon (or the least of us would disagree with).

In this case, however, I am particularly disgusted with the rhetoric coming from the Democrats. If I hear one of them say, even one more time, that the whole thing is about how Republicans only want to destroy women and children, get old people to die faster (or eat dog food), and re-institute slavery, I may just break something.

It's the hypocrisy that gets to me the most here, y'know?

[Goat]

I blame both sides, but mostly the two party system.

Members of either party are forced to align themselves with the middle ground of the party (which in both cases are extreme compared to the moderate ground we should always be aiming for) or else suffer the party's wrath (and their possibilities of re-election).

In the end, we always end up with a particularly liberal or conservative government as opposed to the moderate one a majority of us would agree upon (or the least of us would disagree with).

In this case, however, I am particularly disgusted with the rhetoric coming from the Democrats. If I hear one of them say, even one more time, that the whole thing is about how Republicans only want to destroy women and children, get old people to die faster (or eat dog food), and re-institute slavery, I may just break something.

It's the hypocrisy that gets to me the most here, y'know?

Funny, and I am particularly disgusted by the Rhetoric from the republicans. Who would have thunk that?

[FrostyM288]

What particular bit of hypocrisy are you talking about? I can see how the topics you brought up would upset you...but none of them indicate hypocrisy (at least in just what you stated).

Hypocrisy of the GOP in general is more easily evident. They generally want to drop the deficit, but also drop a large portion of taxes from the people who need the money the least.

Not there isn't any from liberals, just less blatant imo.

[Goat]

What particular bit of hypocrisy are you talking about? I can see how the topics you brought up would upset you...but none of them indicate hypocrisy (at least in just what you stated).

Hypocrisy of the GOP in general is more easily evident. They generally want to drop the deficit, but also drop a large portion of taxes from the people who need the money the least.

Not there isn't any from liberals, just less blatant imo.

And, those taxes cut will allow them to cut services to the nations most vulnerable.

That's why that top 1% of the richest control more that 50% of the wealth in this country.

[dianaiad]

I blame both sides, but mostly the two party system.

Members of either party are forced to align themselves with the middle ground of the party (which in both cases are extreme compared to the moderate ground we should always be aiming for) or else suffer the party's wrath (and their possibilities of re-election).

In the end, we always end up with a particularly liberal or conservative government as opposed to the moderate one a majority of us would agree upon (or the least of us would disagree with).

In this case, however, I am particularly disgusted with the rhetoric coming from the Democrats. If I hear one of them say, even one more time, that the whole thing is about how Republicans only want to destroy women and children, get old people to die faster (or eat dog food), and re-institute slavery, I may just break something.

It's the hypocrisy that gets to me the most here, y'know?

Funny, and I am particularly disgusted by the Rhetoric from the republicans. Who would have thunk that?

Really?

Please indicate to me ANYTHING coming from the Republican side of the aisle that is as remotely uncivil as Jessie Jackson saying that the budget battle is the civil war all over again, or Rep. Louise Slaughter claiming that Republicans came to Washington to 'kill women," or Nancy Pelosi saying that the Republican budget will 'starve the elderly," or Eleanor Holmes Norton claiming that a government shutdown is the 'functional equivalent of bombing innocent civilians."

There simply is no equivalent language on the part of Republican leaders. Nothing even close.

So....when we get THIS stuff from the party that had the unutterable gall to blame the Tucson shootings on 'violent rhetoric' from the right, I call it hypocrisy.

[micatala]

I agree, the rhetoric on the part of some on the left is hyperbolic to say the least.

However, I find it ironic that the Republicans are complaining. Don't I recall something about some of them saying Obama wanted to kill your grandma?



It is a game of chicken. The Reps are trying to use the leverage of a shut down to push their agenda. I do think most of them sincerely want to reduce spending. I also think they are being somewhat disingenuous, though, in that they are also trying to accomplish some of their other, non-budget related ends by using the shutdown threat tactic.


THe dems do deserve some blame for not having gotten a budget done last year, and for allowing the Republicans to put them in this position.


They both deserve blame, going back over a decade, for the large debt.


I do think it is absolutely appropriate to point out, however, that those in government during the Bush Administration are to blame for most of this problem. The following are all reasons we now have a large debt and large deficits and none of them are the responsibility of Obama.

1) Not putting war expenditures for Iraq and Afghanistan in the budget.

2) The huge recession, which resulted in substantially reduced tax revenue.

3) The Bush tax cuts. However, Obama does deserve blame for letting these be extended for everyone. We should not have extended the tax cuts on the high end earners. It is ludicrous to suggest that letting the tax cuts expire on those making over 250K would be hurting the "job creators."

4) The prescription drug benefit passed by Bush, and it is worth noting, with tactics much more heavy-handed than what occurred during the process which passed the Obama health care plan.




Now, Obama is responsible for the auto bailout, and the stimulus bill. However, the auto bailout arguably worked wonderfully, and will not likely have any long term effect on the debt. The stimulus bill was temporary, and again, arguably worked at least reasonably well in preventing and even worse recession. Most ecnonomists say it had the effect of increasing employment by 1.8 to 3 million jobs over what would have happened without it, and reduced the unemployment rate by 1 to 1.5%.





My biggest disappointment is that the current "crisis" is just a circus, and that if we do shut down the government, it will cost us a lot of money, perhaps even more than the 7 billion they are currently fighting over. As I understand it, even something as "small" as closing the National Parks will lose us $32 million dollars per day just in entrance fees.





Bottom line: The Dems have gone way more than half-way in compromising. Thus, the Reps get the lions share of the blame if there is a shut down.